Comment

Comment by GT on July 13, 2009 at 9:33pm

Seems like this well worn, ole tool has been in & out of the box for quite some time, like 400 million years. Tried, trusted and still here. LOL.

The following story is from -
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/07/14/2625067.htm?section=justin

" Scientists find 'world's oldest willy'. Australian scientists have confirmed the oldest penis-like structure in an ancient fish specimen.

The discovery of the 400 million-year-old reproductive organ is one of the earliest examples of internal fertilisation in vertebrate animals.

And understanding the anatomy of these ancient fish could reveal further details in the evolution of vertebrates- including humans.

The research is published in today's advanced online ahead of print edition of Nature.

Study author and palaeontologist Dr Kate Trinajstic, of Curtin University in Perth, says the clasper was discovered in a fish specimen uncovered in the Gogo region of Western Australia in 2001.

She says the team originally discounted the bone as the reproductive organ because they thought it was part of the pelvic gurdle.

On closer inspection, Trinajstic says they realised it was a sexual organ.

"We were surprised because it's so big," she says. "We were expecting something smaller."

Trinajstic says the clasper, which was attached to the pelvic organ would have been erectile.

"It penetrates the female, and acts like a funnel, allowing the transfer of sperm."

Comment by GT on July 13, 2009 at 9:10pm

For conservation biologists -

"Sheepdogs to guard island penguins. Maremma sheepdogs will continue to guard the Little Penguin population on Middle Island, off the coast of Warrnambool in Victoria's south-west.

The Warrnambool Council has voted to retain the two dogs on the island for the third consecutive year.

The council's environmental planner Ian Fitzgibbon says since the dogs were put on the island, there have been no known cases of foxes killing any seabirds this year.

And he says the penguin population on the island has boomed.

"Each year we learn something new, so having a 12-month commitment is probably just a good way of saying we're learning each time and there's always things we can improve on," he said.

He says the Little Penguin population has increased to about 80 adult birds and 32 chicks.

"I think it just really supports the benefits of using maremmas in agriculture and conservation management," he said.

"We've seen how our project has been successful, and we've had a lot of phone calls from around the world, people interested in using maremmas for other areas of predation protection."

Link http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/07/14/2624983.htm?section=justin

I remember Darwin writing about a similiar thing when he visited South America on his travels in the Beagle (see pp 54-56). He said the locals had trained dogs to guard their flocks of sheep from predators. That is the dogs hung out with and protected the sheep on their own.

Apparently there's a bit of training, but a positive story for the conservation of vulnerable species.

Comment by Dave G on July 7, 2009 at 10:51pm

Michael, obviously Roger has no choice in pursuing this topic, he has been conditioned into it. Just like we unable to do anything but reply to it.

Comment by Gaytor on July 7, 2009 at 8:53pm

The rest of the natural world is not deterministic. I have a dog. If I tell him to sit, he will not sit 100% of the time. He has free will, the only difference is I impose my will over his. Plus I have the food. Viruses mutate over time and so they are not deterministic.
We aren't given free will. Free will can be taken from us, but it isn't given. You must impose something to take it from me then give it praise in order for me to have it again, but of course only with puppet strings. How generous... free will under the controllers conditions.
You are only controlled by what you cannot accept. ie I don't get to eat everything that I want because i don't want to be fat. I don't get to have sex with everyone I want because it would not be condusive to my marriage. I'm self-employed because I make and chose my free will and give that right to no one else.
That's my take on it.

Comment by Roger Tholen on July 7, 2009 at 8:51pm

Most people would think it odd to use the word evolution in terms of everyday behavior. But, its one more way various behaviors come into being, or drop out. It follows natural evolution as it applies to animals and plants and to our world in general. If one thinks about it, it would be very consistent to have human behavior follow in the foot steps of nature’s evolution. In many ways our world likes consistency.
As a way of picturing behavioral evolution I like to think of various screens. Like they use when mining for gold. You do one behavior and it gets reinforced and makes it through the screen. You do another behavior and it does not get reinforce, or maybe punished and it does not make it through the screen, It gets screened out.
Well, mostly it’s other people that do the screening. You do or say something and it gets ignored, punished or reinforced.. Depending on which it gets determines if it continues to be a behavior of yours or not. To make it a little more complicated, sometimes a behavior will both get reinforced sometimes and punished at other times. If there is much of this, one can get some very freaky behavior. If one can see this system operating over a number of years, you can see how behavior can be very unsystematically developed. I can explain much of the unusual behavior we see around us.

Comment by Roger Tholen on July 7, 2009 at 8:41pm

OK lets continue the discussion here. I am still trying to get familar with how one moves around in this program. thanks for the suggestion.
I have run across this statement numerous times. The divine creator gave us free will. Since this is a atheist group, I'm having a problem with the inconsistency of not believing in god, but do believe we have free will. Where did this free will come from? I guess we must really be special as all of nature is deterministic, yet we have these beings called human that have this thing called free will. Of course, we could say evolution did it. that is the only somewhat plausible explanation. Something like soul, I guess. We are all supposed to have one of those also.

Comment by Nelson on July 1, 2009 at 12:56pm

i'd actually suggest continuing the discussion here in the forum thread Roger created with a copy and paste of his first comment in this discussion you guys are having here.
but just a suggestion of course. it just seemed appropriate since it's the very same topic that Roger started by posting his comment here. :)

Comment by Reggie on July 1, 2009 at 12:54pm

We are not conditioned to believe we are individuals anymore than elephants who recognize themselves in mirrors are conditioned by "society" or "culture" to be aware of themselves.

Comment by Roger Tholen on July 1, 2009 at 12:54pm

Lets see. Why am I so sure there is no free will. My change started when I was involved in a research grant researching some of Skinner’s experiments and conclusions. I worked with all kinds of animals at first. Ie rats, birds, rabbits, monkeys. Then I worked with developmentally disabled people, and next was normal children, and finally with alcoholics and dope addicts. Somewhere along the line, I began to notice I was getting behavior where there was plainly no free will involved. I then seriously studied my own behavior {observed it} and people around me. At some point, I really can’t say when, I saw that free will was not involved. There were some people long before my time that saw that free will was not involved. I would give you names, but, I really can’t remember them at the moment. Of course, I read all of Skinner’s books. Ie Walden Two, Science and human behavior, The analysis of behavior used in colleges, Beyond Freedom and dignity, Technology of teaching, to name some of them. Btw, one of last things Skinner said before he died was “The proper or appropriate use of the technology of behavior is :”enlightenment”. That really amazed me. It was in one of Psychology Today’s issues. I can see it beginning to happen with all kinds of brain experiments that are happening today. We can get into what the definition of enlightenment is, but at a later time. I will say it has nothing to do with religion or god.

Comment by Roger Tholen on July 1, 2009 at 12:00pm

Wow, you ask the hard ones Michel. First, and I’m not trying to be sarcastic, but free will really does explain the lousy human condition. Without this belief we might have a chance to make a better world.
Now what is self. According to Skinner, it is nothing more or less than a conditioned response. By that I mean if we were not conditioned to belief we were an individual ie joe pick up your shoes, joe, why did you do that, joe eat your veggies. Etc. Right from the go, we start the conditioning of believing we are, or that there is a real, static I. Without this conditioning a child would grow up believing he was just one more part of nature. If not impossible, it would be very difficult to raise a child without this conditioning in our culture. Essentially, this conditioning is a control device to control the child’s behavior. There is no real, static I. I really have no idea as to how a child without this conditioning would behave. There have been stories of children being raised in the wild with animals, but I don’t know if they are true or not. I don’t pretend to really understand what it would be like not to believe there is a real Roger living inside this body. But, intellectually I can imagine this to be true. I think awareness is the consciousness of this I as real and it observes the environment outside of itself. In a funny way, it sort of fits our argument against religion. Ie no soul. Or it could be said no I. I do know energy gets changed to matter and matter to energy. So where does the energy that is Roger go. I don’t know. Maybe back to the energy pool. I’ll try to cover on why I am so sure there is no free will in another discussion. This is enough for now.

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• …
• 28
• 29
• 30
• 31
• 32
• Next ›
• Page