Atheists who love Science!


Atheists who love Science!

A group for science enthusiasts of all types -- professionals, amateurs, students, anybody who loves science.

Members: 906
Latest Activity: Nov 19

Discussion Forum

When a Devastating Solar CME Hits Earth...

Started by Pope Beanie. Last reply by Ken Hughes Mar 18, 2014. 1 Reply

House M.D. mind-reading technology

Started by Radu Andreiu. Last reply by Pope Beanie Dec 3, 2013. 2 Replies

Will we "Humans" evolve backwards?

Started by Sadly 'M' iCantSay. Last reply by Dave G Jun 15, 2013. 42 Replies

Radio Astronomy... "Sounds" of the Universe

Started by Nathan Hevenstone. Last reply by Nelly Bly Feb 24, 2013. 6 Replies

This was on 60 Minutes- What are your thoughts???

Started by Matt. Last reply by R Allan Worrell Feb 23, 2012. 7 Replies

My Review of the Ganzfeld Procedure

Started by Morgan Matthew. Last reply by Jim Sky Feb 14, 2012. 4 Replies

10 Questions for Stephen Hawking

Started by Sydni Moser. Last reply by Akshay Bist Jul 26, 2011. 18 Replies

Fun Science activities for kids? Any Suggestions?

Started by Jason Lamar Sorensen. Last reply by Jim Sky Jul 11, 2011. 11 Replies

assuming world peace is possible

Started by landofhopeanglory Jan 6, 2011. 0 Replies

Let us talk about unguided processes.

Started by Pancake Croissant. Last reply by Bill Dec 28, 2010. 29 Replies

How the Universe Makes the Building Blocks of Life

Started by Jesus_Was_A_Man_Or_Myth_Or_Both. Last reply by Jesus_Was_A_Man_Or_Myth_Or_Both Nov 30, 2010. 2 Replies

Asteroid Impact Procedures

Started by day vo. Last reply by day vo Nov 12, 2010. 1 Reply

SETI procedures

Started by day vo Nov 12, 2010. 0 Replies

Possible Geoglyphs Spotted in Peru

Started by Sydni Moser. Last reply by Doug Reardon Oct 17, 2010. 1 Reply

Comment Wall


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Comment by Roger Tholen on July 1, 2009 at 12:54pm
Lets see. Why am I so sure there is no free will. My change started when I was involved in a research grant researching some of Skinner’s experiments and conclusions. I worked with all kinds of animals at first. Ie rats, birds, rabbits, monkeys. Then I worked with developmentally disabled people, and next was normal children, and finally with alcoholics and dope addicts. Somewhere along the line, I began to notice I was getting behavior where there was plainly no free will involved. I then seriously studied my own behavior {observed it} and people around me. At some point, I really can’t say when, I saw that free will was not involved. There were some people long before my time that saw that free will was not involved. I would give you names, but, I really can’t remember them at the moment. Of course, I read all of Skinner’s books. Ie Walden Two, Science and human behavior, The analysis of behavior used in colleges, Beyond Freedom and dignity, Technology of teaching, to name some of them. Btw, one of last things Skinner said before he died was “The proper or appropriate use of the technology of behavior is :”enlightenment”. That really amazed me. It was in one of Psychology Today’s issues. I can see it beginning to happen with all kinds of brain experiments that are happening today. We can get into what the definition of enlightenment is, but at a later time. I will say it has nothing to do with religion or god.
Comment by Roger Tholen on July 1, 2009 at 12:00pm
Wow, you ask the hard ones Michel. First, and I’m not trying to be sarcastic, but free will really does explain the lousy human condition. Without this belief we might have a chance to make a better world.
Now what is self. According to Skinner, it is nothing more or less than a conditioned response. By that I mean if we were not conditioned to belief we were an individual ie joe pick up your shoes, joe, why did you do that, joe eat your veggies. Etc. Right from the go, we start the conditioning of believing we are, or that there is a real, static I. Without this conditioning a child would grow up believing he was just one more part of nature. If not impossible, it would be very difficult to raise a child without this conditioning in our culture. Essentially, this conditioning is a control device to control the child’s behavior. There is no real, static I. I really have no idea as to how a child without this conditioning would behave. There have been stories of children being raised in the wild with animals, but I don’t know if they are true or not. I don’t pretend to really understand what it would be like not to believe there is a real Roger living inside this body. But, intellectually I can imagine this to be true. I think awareness is the consciousness of this I as real and it observes the environment outside of itself. In a funny way, it sort of fits our argument against religion. Ie no soul. Or it could be said no I. I do know energy gets changed to matter and matter to energy. So where does the energy that is Roger go. I don’t know. Maybe back to the energy pool. I’ll try to cover on why I am so sure there is no free will in another discussion. This is enough for now.
Comment by Roger Tholen on June 30, 2009 at 5:29pm
On what basis do you think free will is "totally essential" to the human condition. I would go this far with you. Belief in free will is essential to explain the unfortunate human condition such as it is. What a world might be possible if we gave up free will and got serious about using whatever works to make some really helpful changes in our culture not dependent on the fairy tale of free will.
Comment by Roger Tholen on June 30, 2009 at 4:57pm
Most people would think it odd to use the word evolution in terms of everyday behavior. But, its one more way various behaviors come into being, or drop out. It follows natural evolution as it applies to animals and plants and to our world in general. If one thinks about it, it would be very consistent to have human behavior follow in the foot steps of nature’s evolution. In many ways our world likes consistency.
As a way of picturing behavioral evolution I like to think of various screens. Like they use when mining for gold. You do one behavior and it gets reinforced and makes it through the screen. You do another behavior and it does not get reinforce, or maybe punished and it does not make it through the screen, It gets screened out.
Well, mostly it’s other people that do the screening. You do or say something and it gets ignored, punished or reinforced.. Depending on which it gets determines if it continues to be a behavior of yours or not. To make it a little more complicated, sometimes a behavior will both get reinforced sometimes and punished at other times. If there is much of this, one can get some very freaky behavior. If one can see this system operating over a number of years, you can see how behavior can be very unsystematically developed. I can explain much of the unusual behavior we see around us.
Comment by Roger Tholen on May 24, 2009 at 1:49pm
Loving science and being a atheist and not believing in free will all go together.
Comment by Roger Tholen on May 24, 2009 at 1:27pm
Most often I get a total put down when talking even the possibility of there being no free will. So I appreciate even a gentle comment.
Comment by Roger Tholen on May 23, 2009 at 8:23pm
I don't hold much hope for change unless more and more people get onto the fact that behavior is determined. I know saying there is no free will is like saying there is no god. But, both statements are true.
Comment by Bob on April 27, 2009 at 10:29pm
Personally, I miss Bill Nye the Science Guy.
I am an Atheist OF SCIENCE!!!
Douglas Adams is a close second
Comment by MikeTheInfidel on February 9, 2009 at 7:58pm
I get giddy when I talk science. I LOVE it.
Comment by Greg on January 4, 2009 at 4:18pm
Hooray! Science is, as we scientists say in technical terms, "the DANK." Word.

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