RULES! Also known as: What do we want and how do we get there?




Much like the Constitution, I believe our doctrine should be open to change, evolution and adaptation. After all. It's either that or go extinct, right?

So..what's our base ideal? How do we self govern?

I'd like to open this discussion by simply asking that we brainstorm a few basic concepts. 


1) What's the "perfect" environment for a human. Imagine that you're building a People Habitat at the zoo, just like you would any other primate. What do you see?

A. At what point is the critical mass where Community becomes Society? What population levels are ideal for human development? Is it fluid?

B.What needs must be met to have a thriving Community?

C.How many hours a day or month should each person dedicate to the Community? 


We'll start focusing on specific when we get the over-all visualization done. 

I'm a big fan of "The right to swing your fist ends where another man's nose begins" for social law and 

"If it is too annoying, dangerous or difficult, outsource. Everything else should be done within the Community." for economy. Past that, I don't really know. 



What do you think? 

Tell me your ideal Community and how you'd go about seeing it reach/maintain perfection. 

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Tell me your ideal Community and how you'd go about seeing it reach/maintain perfection.

Other than the scientific community, I've grown cynical about humanity as a whole.  We have brains that can analyze and weigh facts and events to make informed decisions but that only appears to happen in groups when they are like-minded and not too focused on mere survival.  Otherwise, politics rears its ugly head whenever 3 or more people get together.

Not everybody is into social problem-solving.  It often seems that self-interest takes priority.  A lazy person will gladly watch as others do his work.  A greedy or covetous person will gladly take more than he gives.  So right off the bat, society is saddled with people who aren't team players.  The human condition includes a lot of apathy, sloth and selfishness but not enough concern, purpose and compromise; so it also includes politics at every turn.

And all this doesn't even take religion into consideration.  If humanity was a contentious species before religion, it's hopelessly mired in conflict now.

So, I think the first order of business is to castrate all male adherents of any Abrahamic religion.  Then make childhood religious indoctrination a capital offense.  To reinforce these long overdue measures, we should make science the focus of education -- from preschool through college.

Okay . . . okay . . . castration is a bit severe; so we'll offer all these male adherents a chance to deconvert.  If they choose not to, then off with their balls.

I single out male adherents because they're the ones -- almost exclusively -- fomenting problems.  Besides, when it comes to procreation, neutering one gender is sufficient :-)

In regards to the "perfect" environment for a human, I suggest we look to Maslow's Pyramid (Wiki).

The idea with this is that people generally need the bottom parts of the pyramid before they will really care much about the higher someone who is starving to death doesn't really care much about self esteem and their image to others.


In terms of building a human habitat, it depends how far up the pyramid we want to go.


The bottom level would be ensuring our physiological needs are met (sleep, food, drink, sex, etc). This could be achieved by community sponsored/subsidised sleeping places, food, water. I would also advocate for the legalisation of prostitution, based on this need.


The second level is about the safety of the above needs being met. This would be achieved by a substantial reserve of resources which would act as a buffer so that we don't run out. If people are confident the society wont collapse around them, people will be more likely to join it and bring their families with them. Further in this level of the pyramid is the ideas of employment and property. Ensuring everyone has something to do and is rewarded appropriately will go a long way here.


The third level is where we finally get away from physiological needs like food and water and start to get to the more abstract level of community. At this point, people crave intimate friendships and relationships. If we are thinking about an isolated community, we would need some public spaces where people could meet each other. I think community sponsored events would do well at this point, as people will be encouraged to interact with each other and form bonds outside of the workplace.


The fourth level is where things get difficult to control or even encourage. The fourth level is about self-esteem and respect. Once people are satisfied with the bottom three levels of the pyramid, they begin to crave respect, to be recognised for their efforts. This makes them feel good about themselves. Perhaps some kind of community "show" might work to give people this sense of respect. Like a farmer who enters a particularly large potato into the societies largest potato competition, most professions will have some way to "compete" with others in their field.


The fifth level, I think, is about challenge. Up to the fourth level you can do the same thing day in and day out and satisfied but you will find the fifth level is just out of your grasp. At this point the society will likely be flourishing and continued "growth" will mean continued problems which require solutions. This challenges people and fuels their own personal growth.



I guess in terms of a potential secular community, getting the first two levels up and running would get people to notice us. Going into the third and above levels will be more difficult as they are more centred around the individual. 


In terms of basic human rights: perhaps, the first three levels of the pyramid can be written in as necessary to a successful society.  Above that it is up to the individual to obtain what they want, the society might help it along a bit by removing any discrimination and prejudice, and pushing for "constructive criticisms" only.

Great question!


I also subscribe to  Maslow's Pyramid and I'm passionately committed to building community.


I think within every group of people, there are those who can't take care of themselves, there are those who can take care of themselves, and there are those who can take care of themselves and others.  The success of a community often relies on the percentages of each of these types.  There is also a need to convert each type into a higher level through some sort of education system, often through modeling, but sometimes through more formal types of education.


I think Emerson was on to something with "The right to swing your fist ends where another man's nose begins" but we need to strive to achieve more than that, to help those beyond our fists.


I've been spooked by religious communes in the past, so I'm not comfortable with sharing everything within a community.  I would love to be a part of a community of families in a neighborhood who each owned their own houses, but regularly shared things like cars, lawn equipment, and meals.


Do you know anywhere that one can sign up for such a community?



I recall hearing about a number of experimental communities like what you are talking about. They usually focus on green living and have things like communal vegetable patches.

It seems to me that it isn't just the types of personalities we start from but also the balance of each. 

Like AE said, there will always be (to paraphrase) assholes. 

And as was mentioned later, some folks are just better at taking care of themselves than others are. 


So what we need are an undefined number of  self reliant folks who like to feel needed, I guess. 

Do you agree or disagree with that statement? 

If you disagree, then tell me why.

If you agree, what is the start up number that you feel would be most effective? 


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