Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Dennis Paul Renner on May 3, 2010 at 8:59am

I was born a vetetarian, but have become a vegan after I learned how bad animal based food were for the planet, and how badly the animal were treated. I never really thought about the the health improvements until I realized that I got sick less, felt better, and my athletcism improved greatly. I would never consider going back to eating eggs, or dariy. Why would I ?

Permalink Reply by Jaume on May 3, 2010 at 9:28am

I was very carnivorous as a teen, but as I grew older, my taste for meat diminished, and almost vanished before I turned 40. Ecological responsibility only compounded on this. I don't cook meat or fish anymore today, although I still eat some - in small portions - when I'm sharing a lunch or diner with others. Unless I'm offered a choice between a vegetarian meal and a meaty one.

Permalink Reply by T A A on May 3, 2010 at 3:55pm

That's a great point you make. Up here in the north, the only times I eat meat is if it's fish (because some fish ARE VERY good for you), some sea food (cuz it's the best taste in the whole world), and specialty meat (elk, caribou, bison). These animals, up here, have a nearly 100% natural lifestyle, and don't get industrially butchered. So I eat red meat maybe once a week. (I was vegetarian for 10 years til I became lactose intolerant, then I had to be vegan, and vegan was just not for me).

Humans have been omnivores for our ENTIRE history. It is not inherently wrong to eat meat, per se. What is wrong is to raise it inhumainly and unhealthily.

What is wrong is AGRIBUSINESS, both vege and animal.

Permalink Reply by T A A on May 4, 2010 at 12:14am

It is a valid point. I classify my killing of life in 4 distinct categories:
1-My masters degree involved the killing of many tadpoles and larval salamanders, add to this lobster and insects, yes, I have killed many of these
2-Animals I actually killed for food (in my youth) 1 pig, 2 geese. My family hunted, but I never quite got around to it...
3-Road accidents: 1 rabbit, 1 possibly maimed dog (went looking for him, but couldn't find him so couldn't confirm)
4-BUT NOT LEAST, the mere fact of being a member of the land grubbing, over-reproducing human race. How many bears, cougars, wolves, and countless others who lost their lives simply because our parasitic race insists on subdivisions and homes with a view, reducing wilderness to a patchwork of uninviting ecosystem, through the additional destruction of meandering roadways, with killing machines running amok. How many species have we exterminated just because as a specie we felt that biological clock ticking...

Yes, many people «say» they «could never kill» but what percentage of these are reproducing...

Permalink Reply by Sydni Moser on May 3, 2010 at 1:59pm

I'm so sorry to say that I came to be a full vegetarian only a bit over three years ago. I never particularly liked the taste of beef, lamb, or pork (except bacon) but I did eat it several times a week. Since I was the cook and my husband and my parents (who lived with us) ate meat, chicken and fish, I prepared a meal with it most every night.

When my daughter was 15 she came home from a concert in a fury. Pamphlets were passed out about the buying practices of KFC and she was livid to learn how these animals were treated. She wanted me to stop buying chicken and go vegetarian immediately. it's not that I hadn't considered it many times before, but it was so convenient to just buy a neat and tidy package of meat in the grocery and not think about what in reality I was eating and serving to my family. It's a long story, but my life at the time was extremely complicated and difficult, so just getting through each day was an effort in itself...

Allegra just wouldn't let up until I went online and researched the atrocities of KFC. Once I read about that horror story, I was all over the net learning as much as I could about factory farm animals. I didn't even have a choice, ethically, morally, I knew I just had to give it up. After a lifetime of eating meat, particularly chicken, it wasn't so easy to lose my appetite for meat. (It Tastes Good...) There are some days still, when I'd love a bowl of chicken soup with matzo balls and noodles, but the craving does thankfully pass.

Once the decision was made I quickly realized that I had to learn a whole new way of cooking. Veggies couldn't just be a steamed side dish anymore, it had to keep my interest and wet my appetite. I think that many meat eaters who consider going vegetarian think that only eating vegetables is blah and totally unsatisfying, because that's what they know about vegetables. So utterly untrue. I now have many great vegetarian recipes in my repertoire, and there is unlimited recipe suggestions on the net. Honestly, I think you have to just accept the fact that in order to keep things interesting, you do have to spend more time in the kitchen, but if you make enough to freeze, you will have a variety of ready made meals at your disposal. That's what works best for me, I hate to have to cook every night.

Again, I wish I could say that I had always been health conscious regarding my eating habits in the past, but I was never very consistent about anything and that included my diet. But the more I learned about being a vegetarian, the more I became aware and invested in eating better for my health. A win-win lifestyle change.

Concerns about the environment was the next natural progression. With so much environmental devastation occurring due to farmland being used to raise feed for farm animals, precious rain-forests being cut down to grow soy and corn, and the huge amounts of animal waste producing methane and toxins which are seeping into our rivers, streams and oceans, there is no legitimate reason for anyone to be consuming meat 3 times a day, 365 days a year.

I totally agree with what Adriana said, the most I hope for is that people will eat less meat and that they will try to buy their meat from farms where the animals eat their natural diet, are pastured, and slaughtered as humanly as possible. (?)

Anyone who is considering going vegetarian or limiting their meat consumption should consider joining the Vegetarian and Vegan Atheist group. You'll find plenty of information there and great recipes to try.

Permalink Reply by T A A on May 3, 2010 at 4:00pm

Anyone who is considering going vegetarian or limiting their meat consumption should consider joining the Vegetarian and Vegan Atheist group. You'll find plenty of information there and great recipes to try.

Unfortunately, it's been made clear several times that those groups are NOT very welcoming to the «less» is better attitude. In those groups, it's a dogma, and if you don't fit the dogma, you certainly don't feel welcome. I find this saddening.

Permalink Reply by Sydni Moser on May 3, 2010 at 4:27pm

Well there TAA, I'm the moderator of the Vegetarian and Vegan group... and if I were to catch anyone being rude and unwelcoming, I'd get on their case. On the other-hand, if anyone were to join and start to call us 'Vegan Nazis' for our point of view, (which I did experience happening on another atheist social networking group), they too would be chastised or asked to leave.

Open, respectful discussions are welcome, and those who are thinking about eating more vegetarian meals should join without hesitation. One doesn't have to be a 'card carrying vegan' to become a member, just an interest to know more or discuss the pros and cons are welcome.

Permalink Reply by T A A on May 4, 2010 at 1:01am

Well I certainly hope so :)
then again, people have quite different degrees of rudeness... from being 'unwelcoming' to outright rude... :)

Permalink Reply by Misty: Baytheist Living! on May 6, 2010 at 10:15am

I'm a member of those groups.. and I'm a meat eater. I even stated in one of my posts very clearly that I'm a meat eater, and looking for ways to cut down, though not eliminate.
I don't recall anyone being rude or unwelcoming to me...

Permalink Reply by Sydni Moser on May 3, 2010 at 2:33pm

Any meat eaters want to join in this conversation? Promise, no one will pounce on you.

Permalink Reply by Misty: Baytheist Living! on May 6, 2010 at 10:40am

Yeah.. so I'm a little late to the game.
Sorry, Sydni.
I actually found this discussion because I was going to email you to ask if you wanted to continue our conversation. ~facepalm~
Anyway, now that I'm here, I'll toss in what I said before.

Eating meat arguments come in three main waves. (At least as I understand it.) So this is how I'm going to break it down.

1) Harm to the environment.
2) Harm to my own body.
3) Harm to the animal.
A) Death
B) Suffering


1) Harm to the environment.
We are all harming the earth just by being here and utilizing modern convinces. Electric power, natural gas, metals, ect. No one can live a perfect life, so we all have to do what we can.
I feel that the best way I can reduce my footprint is by not reproducing. I challenge anyone anywhere to say that they are 'living green' while still propagating the human species. If you have kids, you are doing way more damage than I ever could by eating hot-wings. Secondly, because I am not having kids, the responsibility of the future of the earth isn't really in my genetic interest. I don't drive a fuel efficient car because I want my grandchildren to be able to breathe clean air. I drive a fuel efficient car because I wouldn't want to be born into a world where I couldn't breathe clean air. So basically I don't litter because I hate a hypocrite. In the end, I think we are all screwed, anyway. Extinction for our species or any other is natural. I don't see many T-Rexes running around, and that shit went down long before humanoids were hunting things for food. (Debatable.) Once I die, the world ending or not isn't going to be a major personal concern. In the grand scheme of the cosmos, what happens to our species within the blink of existence that we have to mess it up won't make a difference. Nature will either right itself and wipe us out, or it won't. The worst that can happen is that it all becomes space dust, continuing on the endless cycle of an ever expanding universe.
2)Harm to my own body.
Yeah, I should also probably lay off the alcohol and recreational drugs, too.
What business is it of yours unless I'm harming you? :)
3)Harm to animals.
A) Death-
I don't believe any one life is more 'sacred' than another. To me, outside of things that can give me an illness, I think dead flesh is meat. Nothing is taboo. Hell, if it was medically safe and would help solve world hunger, I'd fully support cannibalism in the place of burial.
Every time I breathe, swallow or drink water, I'm killing something. Unless you believe that one life is more important than another because some god said so, that the worth of a creature's life is based on intelligence, then I don't see how this is even an issue.
B) Suffering-
When something dies, it suddenly finds it's body quite useless. What does it mind if I eat it after? Not like it's using any of those tasty parts that would otherwise decay and turn into dirt. I hate to be a hypocrite, so I'm a full organ and tissue donor. Again, this was covered above.
But if something is brought into this world with the express purpose of being tortured...that's another matter to me.
I eat meat that comes from pastures, not cages.
And it's expensive. Seriously.. that's why I was looking for tips on reducing my meat consumption in the first place. In Thailand it wasn't so bad. Your buffalo starts getting old and slow? Maybe shows signs of joint pain? Snap! Dinner! The chickens I ate were running around in the yard prior to becoming curry. Here in the U.S, it's more difficult. It's also a lot more spendy, but I do what I can.
Dairy and eggs I'm still learning about how to make the most compassionate choices available.
Cow's milk I've given up entirely. By using local co-ops, wild game butchers and neighbor's of neighbor's (I live in a place with a whole lot of agriculture) I think that I can say that the suffering I'm responsible is as reduced as I'm capable of in my current situation. True, it's not perfect, but as my life evolves, it is one thing I will always endeavor to work on.



That's my reasoning for eating meat. If anyone else has any points to bring up, I'd be glad to think them over and address them.

Permalink Reply by Jaume on May 6, 2010 at 1:28pm

Yeah, I should also probably lay off the alcohol and recreational drugs, too.
What business is it of yours unless I'm harming you? :)

None as long as you grow your weed yourself. But if your recreational drugs come at the cost of indigenous people being spoiled, displaced or murdered in South America, I definitely have a problem with it. And I'm not even talking about damaging the rainforests.

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