Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Abigail Michell on October 9, 2011 at 1:48am

You are viewing mariage as a right, not a privelige that the government can deny you.  If I were able to marry the woman I love I would definately do it.

 

Straight people don't know how lucky they are.

 

Abby.

 

Permalink Reply by Katie Proctor on October 9, 2011 at 8:00pm

I feel completely insensitive posting this discussion. It makes my heart sick that you and other LGBT's do not have the same rights as straight people. The government has no right to tell anyone who they can and cannot marry.

 

I am a very active human rights activist for LGBT equality. I know that we have made great strides this past year and I see that in the future, more states will follow New York's lead and step out of the marriage business. All Americans should have the right to marry the person that they love.

Permalink Reply by Jonel Burge on October 9, 2011 at 2:01am

Marriage is going two ways: Being available for more people, in more ways(a black guy and a white woman used to not be able to get married, less than 50 years ago), and also becoming less of a big, important dealio for white hetero people--most people have jobs and can live on their own, so with the decline of the housewife, you've able to have women choose to leave an abusive or deadbeat husband, of have a husband leave an abusive or manipulative wife.

 

Major thing that is driving this: Lifespan. Lifespan used to be age 40 or so if you're poor, age 50-60 if you're richer--lifespan is now well into the mid-70's and people change as they grow older--and more and more people are understanding that, and realizing that it's better to divorce when you no longer care about one another, instead of stay together and make one another's lives miserable. The stigma is going away because people can have lives well after divorce.

Another major thing: You can have kids, without getting married--especially if you're a woman. The two aren't mutually partnered. The ability to do this means that if a woman has a successful career, she doesn't have to worry about finding a man to support her and her kids--she can do it herself.

 

Marriage is declining yes, because it's just not necessary for a couple to show love and affection for one another for 10+ years--the only reason for marriage is to make an official declaration of long-term monogamy, as well as tax reasons or health insurance/etc reasons.

 

I actually used to think that I had to get married, but now I'm feeling more and more that with the right guy, it's not necessary. If I can trust him and I know he won't decide to just kick me out of the apartment one day, I don't mind just living with him long-term as a monogamous couple.

Permalink Reply by Camila Quevedo on October 9, 2011 at 2:09am

I guess at my young age I can't entirely be sure. But for myself marriage isn't especially important. I suppose it's because I, as a woman, don't need to depend on a man to provide for me. I can be independent if I want to. And I think that, in some ways, this goes for men too. They feel like love and marriage isn't the end all be all dream. The idea of marriage in the 1950s was a man and wife, two kids, and house with a white picket fence. The man would go to work, the woman would stay at home. As it had been for centuries. But since that is no longer the case marriage is not an absolute must any more.

As for divorce, yeah part of it is the stigma but you also have to remember the hoops that the couple in question have to go through. In some countries still have to go through. When the catholic church had the power the wife had to prove that the man was not as he said he was, either in wealth or personality. And a lot of the time she may be denied. In other countries today its a matter of a legal battles, which could last ages and cost the couples a whole lot of money. Here in the US it's easier.

And Abigail, it is a right. One that's been denied to you unfairly. Just as marriage rights have been denied to mixed couples in the past. It's one that we should change and fight for. It shouldn't be denied to anyone.

Permalink Reply by rhetrix on October 9, 2011 at 11:55am

I think a lot of women are realizing that they don't need men to support them and so they are waiting until they really find the right one and not just one that's ok. . .

 

I'm single, though i've had long term relationships. i own my own house and car and I support myself. I'm not wealthy, being as i'm a teacher, but i can take care of myself. . .there are still a lot of women who view marriage as one of things they must do to be complete *sigh*. .

 

I don't view it that way. . .i'm not against marriage. . .if i find the right person, I might still do it, but i can have relationships without that being to end goal

Permalink Reply by Cristynfaye on October 9, 2011 at 12:41pm

I don't think it's really an old fashioned idea.  Many people, in many cultures, over many time periods have been doing it.  I just think that in our society right now, it's one of the options a person can choose (most people can choose it, anyway).  

 

I heard somewhere, and I don't have a source for it, so I might be mistaken, but I heard that more and more people are not getting divorced.  Somewhere in the 30s and 40s crowd, people are deciding to stay married.  I don't know if this is for financial reasons, or if maybe people are waiting longer to get married in the first place, and therefore choosing a partner that they can be committed to for longer.  I hope it's the latter (because I can't help but be a hopeless romantic).

 

But the great thing about living in our society right now is that you don't have to get married if you don't want to.  For centuries, women would have to get married just in order to survive.  Now we have options.  Some people are the marrying kind, and some people aren't.  I think the bottom line is that whatever a person chooses to do or not to do, should be socially acceptable.

Permalink Reply by Samantha Lustinia on October 9, 2011 at 3:03pm

I believe that marriage is something that is taken for granted, and as such they seem to think nothing of divorce.  I think the rate of divorce that goes up with the number of marriages reflects that.  I am on marriage number three...and I have learned not to take him or what we have for granted.  It is too easy to settle in on the "he said, she said" or the he/she doesnt do this so I am not going to...or to think the grass is greener on the other side.  Maybe they should spend time tending their own grass :)  I also think its unfair that marriage is something that has to be fought for by the LBGT community.  After all...marriage is about love, support and the knowledge that the person you marry has your back.  The government should stay out of it.  Along with quite a few other things, but thats for a different topic!

Permalink Reply by Bleacheddecay on October 9, 2011 at 9:27pm

Single, in a relationship, or married women of TA, how do you feel about marriage?

 

I'm married for the second time. The first one was hell. This on is much closer to heaven. However, I've always felt that marriage was created for men and by men. I'm not fond of it.

 

Is it old-fashioned or do you think it is something that can still work in our modern world?

 

It's something that can still work in our modern world though it could be old fashioned depending how it's done and who does it. Key is finding two people who will make it work, no matter what, who will keep communicating and forgiving each other.

 

In the 1950s, statistics show that 67% of women were married. Since then, the percent has dropped to 56% (2009).

 

It's become less important to us as we have acutal other choices accepted by society. Still it's part of society to brainwash us into thinking we need / want to get married.

Are we becoming more cynical about marriage or is it becoming less important to us?

 

Probably both.

 

Statistics show that the divorce rate for a first marriage is 41%, second is 60%, and the third is 73%. Is this because marriage is not longer valued in our society or because we are able to get divorced without the stigma inflicted on women in the past?

 

Possibly a bit of both. However, mostly it's because people are not able to focus these days on what is important and make things work. It's such a "me" generation that they become more and more me centric and neurotic rather than thinking of others.

 

Tell me what you think! I am very interested to hear all of your thoughts on marriage and divorce. :)

 

I think they both suck.

Permalink Reply by John Luikart on October 9, 2011 at 10:08pm

I think it is an old-fashioned idea, and it can work in our modern world, but maybe not for everyone.  Some thoughts have crossed my mind lately with all the talk about gay marriage (I'm for equal rights to all humans).  I've used the 1st amendment as an argument for gay marriage.  But by my interpretation, there should be no tax breaks for married couples or government involvement of an kind when it comes to marriage. 

 

That said, as a single athiest, I would get married if I met someone that I wanted to spend the rest of my life with.  Just as I celebrate Christmas and Easter.  And I'll probably change my mind 5 years later like half of those that have already tried it.

Permalink Reply by Ron V on October 9, 2011 at 10:33pm

Personally, I believe it is.

In 1900, the average human life span was in the mid to late 40's (if I remember correctly).  Even then, mistresses and affairs were not uncommon (at least from the stories I have heard about my family and the families of friends).  Now that we live, on average, into our 70's, I think it is reasonable to question the utility of marriage and being with 1 partner for most of our adult lives.  I guess statistics show the "norm" may be divorce and not monogamy.

I think, like many things, this is something that people in America hold on to as an idea/ideal without really questioning it, much like God and religion.

Permalink Reply by Reggie on October 9, 2011 at 10:40pm

Marriages should expire after 7 years unless voluntarily renewed by both parties.

Permalink Reply by Nicole Swimley on October 12, 2011 at 2:40am

I think the idea that marriage is the only socially acceptable final destination for committed relationships is old-fashioned. Marriage itself though is just an option. Granted it's not an option for most members of the LGBT community as they've been irrationally denied the freedom to do so in most states and countries. 

 

As a child my dreams were filled with finding the "one" and walking down the aisle in a poofy, white dress. My mom still dreams of seeing my wedding day, probably more than I ever did. Now though I'm not so sure marriage is the right answer for me. It would take a very special individual to convince me to sign up for all the legal bindings marriage entails. My parents have been married 27-28 years and neither of them see it ending anytime soon. They've had their share of spats, but through good communication have always come out better for it. It was a good example growing up, but I like to be realistic that it may not work out that way for me.

 

I don't think divorce should be seen as negative. "Necessary" I think is more appropriate considering all the legal stuff that goes along with marriage, and the fact that a lot of marriages just don't work.

 

The idea of long-term pair bonding as traditional is erroneously thought to be historically universal (albeit it is more common). There is still a matriarchal tribe in China called the Mosuo who don't practice marriage at all. Jealousy and any violence or suicide due to relationships is a foreign concept to them. It's interesting to read about a different perspective on the subject: http://news.softpedia.com/news/Mosuo-One-of-the-Last-Matriarchal-So... I believe there are similar societies that have been observed in Africa. I'll have to look them up again.

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