Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by archaeopteryx on January 2, 2013 at 3:23pm

RE: "I've always been interested in whether or not people bought the god concept before the religion or god w/religion all at once."

I've always maintained that Early Man, seeing lightening, thunder, rain, the sun and the moon associated with the sky, the one place they couldn't go, was the origin of a supernatural concept.

Permalink Reply by jared manley on January 2, 2013 at 5:05pm

I meant modern day where we have all heard of "god".

 But yeah, I see what you're saying.

Permalink Reply by writtenmania on January 2, 2013 at 2:21pm

Islam has not gone through an 'age of enlightenment' in comparison with Judeo-Christinity.. true, some in the past have tackled with existential questions and scepticism of the Quran like elmotazalh/non-conformists during the Ummayiad Caliphate but it was brief and eventually they were labelled heretics, persecuted and sometimes executed.

The point is, without a religion.. especially Abrahamic; going through enlightenment it's more like Sisyphus rock and with most exMuslims living in 'islamic' countries were illiteracy, Ignorance, intolerance and of course religious fervour running amok, it's not just pointless for us exmuslims to do our part but also very risky and life threatening.

Unfortunately or maybe fortunately, it's way too late now for Islam to go through enlightenment and even if, very unlikely when freethinkers are silenced but due to that..Islam's demise is near and it's going to be hard.. I'd just sit back and watch

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Permalink Reply by Unseen on January 2, 2013 at 2:50pm

I read somewhere that when you run into a liberal and tolerant Muslim, you can be fairly sure that they can't quote The Q'ran chapter and verse. It's much the same with Christians.

Permalink Reply by writtenmania on January 3, 2013 at 6:48am

very true but I've yet to meet an exMuslim Atheist who hasn't scrutinised the Quran and Hadith/Sunnah Tradition.. when it comes to knowing Islam  inside out, exMuslims have done their homework and, we are at par with Islamic scholars..if not better.

Most tolerant or so-called moderate Muslims know very little about Islam, they hardly read and all they do is pray occasionally on religious holidays or Fridays.

Permalink Reply by SteveInCO on January 3, 2013 at 9:26am

The point being that once you have thoroughly read the thing, as a moderate Muslim, you must "fish or cut bait" as we sometimes say here--decide to be a fundamentalist or to reject it.

Likewise, many moderate Xians.  Though some who read the whole thing in seminary manage to hang on and become pastors in the moderate denominations.  (It's conceivable that they themselves lose their faith but decide the watered-down crap is suitable for the flock.)

Permalink Reply by archaeopteryx on January 3, 2013 at 10:55am

@zenga - it sounds like it would be safe to say that among Muslims, much as among Christians, the least literate are the most devout, or at least the most fearful (for what is religion but fear of retribution for disbelief?).

Permalink Reply by Unseen on January 3, 2013 at 11:07am

The article I read was indicating that all the worst of Islam does have Q'ranic justification and that the "good" Muslims (not ex-muslims become atheists) simply didn't understand the horrors the book contained.

Permalink Reply by Simon Paynton on January 3, 2013 at 8:00am

Zenga, I appreciate your position: make a move and you're silenced.  However, you've already advised me.  I know I'm being extremely naive, and the situation seems hopeless, but maybe 10 or 20 years down the line things could start to change if we play our cards right.  A clear system of morality based on reason has to be some kind of way forward, especially if it can be seen to come out of the mouths of The Prophet Mohammed and Jesus etc.  The oppressed are liberated and the oppressor becomes a human being.  That's the idea.  Everyone wins.  It can be possible to shift a culture from a paranoid dangerous one to a more tolerant caring one where everyone thrives.  I think it will be necessary to make it into a "science" or subject area for making formal study and a body of knowledge and thinking.  It's not very complicated at all.  Then it can be made more portable and easier to implement in different cultures.  The Dalai Lama is on our side, along with a huge number of others. 

Permalink Reply by jared manley on January 3, 2013 at 11:57am

"...of the mouths of The Prophet Mohammed and Jesus etc."

When reading about Jesus I tend to think "Seems like a nice enough character." When reading about Mohammed I think "This dood was friggin nuts!".

 From the little I've read in the Qur'an Mohammed is a depraved, lunatic. 

 What from Mohammed's mouth would you use for moral comparison?

 But there is another problem: We all have a different set of morals.

Permalink Reply by Simon Paynton on January 5, 2013 at 4:07am

Here are some quotes from the Prophet Mohammed which, in the main, directly coincide with the atheist moral framework. 

Some Quotes By Prophet Mohammed

It's true that we all have a different set of morals.  However, we can use evolution to justify a moral concept which gives rise to a certain set of moral values. 

Permalink Reply by jared manley on January 2, 2013 at 6:17pm

Michael De Dora just tweeted this:

http://www.centerforinquiry.net/blogs/entry/un_approves_landmark_me...

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