I have a very close and dear relative in my family that is an extreme Salifist, and not the mildly smart kind either.

It has been very difficult to hold any conversation with him without involving El-Mahdy returning soon, the world is going to end soon, or that all this technology and science is the work of the devil or the anti-christ.

I always try to keep the conversation light and empty from anything post the industrial age, as the least of it will make him say things that truly get on my nerves. But you can imagine how difficult that can be in an age where we are primarily dependent on the fruits of science.

It's not only that but I always hear that tone in his voice as if I'm a lesser being or someone that lost his path. And I'm just unable to tolerate that ignorant condescending tone of his anymore.

We knew each other since kindergarten, so you can imagine how close we are, and it is absolutely heartbreaking for me to see him turn out to be that guy.

I fear that there's not much I can do to endure this relationship but I hope you guys have some ideas on how to deal with that type of an ideology.

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u can just let go .. or u can argue with his logic if u have the time and luxury to do so.

i guess the guy is a hopeless case

I do agree with Marvel. The sad thing is people with this fucked up mentality are writing our constitution now.

Anyways, its better to let him start the conversation next time and after he finishes an argument fuck it up for him. As when you start a conversation with those losers they think that you have doubts and they start talking from some sort of a virtual higher moral ground.

The best thing though is never to talk to him. ;)

I'm arriving slowly at the conclusion that he's a hopeless case... oh well! :/

Rma - I think you're taking the right approach, relate to that part of him you CAN relate to, and avoid controversial topics, if you wish to continue your relationship. I must privately question however, how much of his own life is dependent on the very science he abhors?

That's what I'm trying to do, I'm trying to keep the relationship and just avoid any discussions that might lead to tension, but so far that's just proved to be very difficult.

Are you asking how much of his life depends on science/technology that he's aware of? I'll assume that you are asking that question. Well, he uses a computer to further poison his mind with complete garbage from long bearded nut jobs, other than that, not much. He thinks computers are useless and we don't need them, same goes for electricity. Of course I tried more than once to explain to him how earth will look like without all of that and that the current number of humans can't by any means exist without these technologies/science, but I feel I'm talking to a wall!

@Rma - yes, that's what I meant, I thought if you could show him how much he, himself, depended on science, maybe he would then try to imagine his life without it, but if he feels computers and electricity are useless, maybe he needs to go back to basics, and see the difference --

Sad thing is.. he does want exactly that. Now he's been raised in middle-upper class, not being around the block much, not even outside of his city much, so I'm pretty sure he's just being loyal to the nut jobs he listens to, but in reality I don't think he could handle such harsh reality for a long time.

He wouldn't last a week in the desert in a tent, he's just never been faced with the reality of that kind of life. Here, we have vast forests, and I love to go camping, but I would never for a minute consider spending the rest of my life in the woods, living off the land.

Clearly, he's filled with the idealism of youth, time will take care of that, and while I agree he needs to wean himself from the nut jobs, to be honest, since he doesn't see any harm in it, I don't really see what possible influence you could have.

If he's really someone you care about, stick with him and let him compare your point of view with that of the nut jobs (otherwise, he'll be left with only that of the nut jobs) - if not, wash your hands and walk away.

I've tried to deconstruct his theological foundation epistemologically, though indirectly to not make it obvious that I'm attacking Islam but rather a mock-structure that is similar. But every time I try to get him to merge the mock-structure to his thoughts so that he notices the similarities and the ridiculousness of what he believes in, he simply refuses to continue and stops as if his brain panics and just refuses to continue thinking and at this point he gets angry and tells me "I don't care what is you think right and wrong, all I care about is to follow Allah's word to the letter so I can go to heaven." and at this point my trial just fails.

So that's my problem, I'm unable to get him to even think to begin with.

It's not easy to counter a lifetime of indoctrination, even a young lifetime, and that holds for Christians and Muslims. The Stockholm Syndrome is likely in play, as it is in nearly any child who is raised in a rigid family atmosphere. Only time away from the nut jobs is likely to help.

I wish I could offer you some profound solution, but I don't know of one.

Sounds like he's a good candidate for becoming Amish, which I understand is the fastest-growing religion in America.

-- and the slowest moving --

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