Good day fellow atheists!
My question to you today: What was the final moment, action or realization that made you completely confident in your deconversion. In other words, what pushed you from agnostic (or belief, if it was sudden for you) to atheist.
For me it was a realization in philosophy class while we were studying philosophy of religion. Seeing how the arguments against god seemed much more logical and sound pushed me into a complete confidence. Since then I have been doing research to further my understanding of atheism and religion.
It doesn't sound conceited. To be honest, I think I also always knew that there was no god. It just took me a long while to realize why I thought that, and that it was rational and not abnormal to think that.
My final straw came from an atheist "pamphlet" that's been around online for years. I clung to religion by the tiny thread of Intelligent Design. It made PERFECT sense to me and I could never think of anything to disprove it. Then I read this pamphlet and the incredibly obvious was pointed out to me: If nothing so complex as the universe can exist without a creator, then what about God? Wouldn't he be more complex than the universe, so how could HE exist without a creator. Damn, that last little thread snapped. Looking back, I'm not sure how ID ever made *any* sense to me at all!
That's actually great to know that the pamphlet appeals to the rational side of some theists! Were you ever a strong believer?
Yes, atheism is a belief. I prefer to call it a lack of belief in a god, that it why I said that people may change from a belief (in god) to atheism. Sorry, I could have phrased that better.
Is this a list of things theists and religions don't let you do? Is this why you deconverted/stopped believing in a god?
"believe in not believing"
huh??? Keep it simple.
Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.
The key is lack of belief. Has nothing to do with believing.
Actually atheism is not a belief. It's a rejection of belief in the existence of a deity or deities. For clarification check this out..
What you quoted was me.. not me, quoting Wiki, I posted that link as clarification of what I was saying in case I wasn't getting the point across. .. Now I avoided the word 'belief' specifically because once 'belief' comes into the picture then Atheism is then seen by some to be a religion. Which is not. Therefore the phrase 'rejection of belief in the existence of a deities" is appropriate for me in describing what Atheism is about.
You'd think if people spent that much time on the question of God and it's ramifications they'd at least be able to make their argument convincing and their books without contradictions. But then blind faith is blind faith regardless of the amount of time involved.
Please read the numerous, well written pieces, in my opinion, that deal with this- start with Atheism, the Case Against God (Smith), then get back with us
(and here is a short article that may help as well http://www.alternet.org/belief/148555/is_atheism_a_belief/)
Yes, you are wrong.
Why are people so hung up on the concept of belief? Here is the dictionary definition I am using. "confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof"
I will agree that there are some things I believe in; assumptions that I make about the world that I haven't bothered to consider, or seek evidence for myself. However, the questions of whether there is a god, which ones might be real, and the nature of the universe are questions I have put some thought to.
Religious claims have a notable distinction from scientific claims; they are not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof. Claims are made, and there is no way to verify them, and they often contradict logic and readily-available evidence. The ONLY way to accept them is through faith. You have to believe, or don't.
A scientific theory works differently. Someone looks at some mysterious process in the world & wants to figure out how it works. They form a hypothesis, "It looks like this might explain what I'm seeing. If it's true, then I can expect to find X, Y & Z" Then they perform experiments to see if they do, in fact, find x, y & z where they predicted. That can provide very strong evidence to conclude that the theory might be correct. Then they publish their findings so that anyone else can look through their methods and perform the experiments themselves so they can verify their findings.
Until, of course, more data becomes available, or a better idea that requires a revision in the theory. At no point in this process does "belief" play a part.
So do I "believe" in atheism? Of course not! Honestly, there are some stupid questions, and that's one of them. I really have to question the mental faculties of someone who doesn't understand that.
Have you stopped beating your wife yet? Your puerile word games don't mean that you can pick your own definition for words. Atheism is a lack of belief. Get that through your head. If you are unable to understand the basic meaning of the words you use, you can't have an honest conversation.
Yeah! ...(what Artor said)
Are you saying that belief in science is a necessary condition for atheism?
I understand atheism simply as a lack of belief for a god (all gods). Does a belief in science and logic/rationality need to be added to that definition. I think that one's belief in science was a personal choice, outside of a choice for atheism, even though they are similar.