"You are just mad at god"--Are we actually encouraging this by mistake?

You've all heard the claim that we aren't really atheists, we are just mad at god.  (Or you will see such things as "so and so claims to be an atheist.")

Today, though I saw an argument in chat with a theist, and someone else's account of an argument they had out in public, and I stopped to wonder if maybe we aren't sometimes encouraging this line of bullshit, albeit unwittingly.

What happened in both cases was the atheist began recounting all the sorts of horrible things Yahweh is portrayed as doing or believing or commanding.  In one case, I saw the atheist say "why should I love god when he won't love me back?"

The problem with this sort of thing is we usually don't take care to phrase our remarks to make it clear that god is a character of fiction.  When discussing the misdeeds of Yahweh we tend to fall back on a convention we use when we talk about a fictional character in a book.  We refer to him by name and talk as if the guy was real and the book was not fiction, for example, "In George Orwell's 1984, Winston Smith was arrested for thoughtcrime," not, "In George Orwell's 1984, the character Winston Smith..."

We know what we mean, because we both know Winston Smith (or god) is fictitious.  But they don't know god is fictitious.

Talking this way with someone who believes the fictional character is real might cause him not to understand you are just following the convention.  Your phrasing sounds to him like you accept god as real, he "knows" god is real, so he assumes at some level you think god is real.

What I am suggesting here is that you ever want to bring up how nasty this being is, you make it clear that you don't think he exists, make sure you put "fictitious" (or equivalent) in every other sentence at least, and not let them think for a minute that you assume the existence of god.

Yes I know that when you just said you were an atheist this shouldn't be necessary, but obviously many of these people don't understand atheism in their guts, so don't let their paradigm default you into a "believer but mad at god" box.

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Suzzanne - ask him about the night that Muhammad flew, like Superman, through the air from Mecca in Iran, to the temple in Jerusalem, to heaven, then back to Mecca, and in the process was able to rack up frequent flier mileage that was he was able to use on future flights.

My unicorns were around loonngg before this dude came along, and people have seen the unicorns fly to heaven and check out the other unicorns, and to check out where the best parties are. My unicorns don't like Mecca, too much fighting - they come to Australia on a regular basis, and their environmental  footprint is nil compared to those dirty airplanes.

@Suzann

I have trouble to save my reply under yours so i am trying here hope it works

@Suzann,if someone believes in non existing god how he can not believe in creature, smaller than a mule and bigger than a donkey ….took Mohamed to bait al maqdis in one night. And if someone does not believe in existing god how he can believe  this nonsense.We can terminate this discussion by this and that’s it, especially  with your ironic tone, and with the arrogant way of the (long name archeo……..)this discussion as I understand has no intention to change people dogma in believing or disbelieving, this discussion is simply (besides improving my English) may improve decent communication, between people with different dogma.

Now I am starting by your question ‘Guarding in secret that which allah hath guarded”

34. Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allah and to their husbands), and guard in the husband's absence what Allah orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). As to those women on whose part you see ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful), but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great.

So the wife is being asked to be truthful to her husband,what allah orders them to guard is what husband in this world ask his wife to beو while she is not with him or while his absence.the same orders for husbands towards their wives,do not betray them with other women and to guard their property(husband has no right on his wife property unless she gives him permission),….an affair for example is sin either by man or women.

Now,Albukhary and moslim,their work gathering prophetic traditions was doing by great effort,but is not perfect totally,and both of them said that it should be continued by more specification like:attestation,declaration of eligibility,and from that time up to now we can easily know more than 10 classifications of the prophetic traditions. Our scholars did a massive work to bring to us not only what is called (sound tradition)or fair tradition,but even untraceable tradition or rejected tradition and so on.so today we know what was truly said by Mohamed and what wasn’t.and we still making effort to know even more better about religion.NO ONE WITH COMPLETE KNOWLEDGE.

WE RESPECT ALL WHAT THEY DID,YES, BUT WE DON’T DEIFY THEM OR WE DON’T, AT LEAST, FOLLOW THEM BLINDLY.WE DON’T CONSECRATE THEM OR THEIR WORK.who is doing this because of lack of knowledge is doing big mistake.

yes Mohamed was 53 when he married Aicha 18 years old girl.

All resources:alkamil (the complete history),Damascus history,attabary history,albidaya wa annihaya(the biggining and the end)bagdad history,the chronology of the death of known people,all these and more said that the prophetic mission was 13 y in makkah,10y in madina city,so 610 prophetic mission 623 immigration to madina city,633 the death of Mohamed.

Ibn kathir in albidaya wa annihaya,said that Aicha was among the first women entered to islam before Mohamed declared his call ,during the secret call period(secret call 3years) ,it means before 614,so Aicha and other female before 614 became muslim, if we take what albukhary said (aicha was born in the fourth year of prophetic mission started and married 6 ectr……..)we will find that aicha  at that time wasn’t ever born or at least she was baby,but if we consider that she was by 614 a muslim and she was born before the prophetic mission by 4y =606,THIS  will definitely stand with WHAT ALBUKHARY said narrating from Aicha herself,she said and alburary cited this “that she knows ( be aware ) her parents only as muslim,and Mohamed visiting them morning and afternoon and when the situation of the muslim people get worst her father Abubakr went to Alhabasha “and we know that the immigration to alhabasha was in 615 so how she can recognize all this details if she was born in 614.albukhary cited this tradition without asking himself about how she could be witness of her father immigration if she was born after the prophetic mission by 4 years.is it enough to be sure that she wasn’t 9 but 18 when Mohamed marry her,and yes he was 53 years old and he died in between her neck and chest hugging him as she said.

Now the issue  about quran or Koran,quran was left by Mohamed and was totally written. I will discuss this next time to show you how.

@Suzann,if someone believes in non existing god how he can not believe in creature, smaller than a mule and bigger than a donkey ….took Mohamed to bait al maqdis in one night. And if someone does not believe in existing god how he can believe  this nonsense.We can terminate this discussion by this and that’s it, especially  with your ironic tone, and with the arrogant way of the (long name archeo……..)this discussion as I understand has no intention to change people dogma in believing or disbelieving, this discussion is simply (besides improving my English) may improve decent communication, between people with different dogma.

Now I am starting by your question ‘Guarding in secret that which allah hath guarded”

34. Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allah and to their husbands), and guard in the husband's absence what Allah orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). As to those women on whose part you see ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful), but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great.

So the wife is being asked to be truthful to her husband,what allah orders them to guard is what husband in this world ask his wife to beو while she is not with him or while his absence.the same orders for husbands towards their wives,do not betray them with other women and to guard their property(husband has no right on his wife property unless she gives him permission),….an affair for example is sin either by man or women.

Now,Albukhary and moslim,their work gathering prophetic traditions was doing by great effort,but is not perfect totally,and both of them said that it should be continued by more specification like:attestation,declaration of eligibility,and from that time up to now we can easily know more than 10 classifications of the prophetic traditions. Our scholars did a massive work to bring to us not only what is called (sound tradition)or fair tradition,but even untraceable tradition or rejected tradition and so on.so today we know what was truly said by Mohamed and what wasn’t.and we still making effort to know even more better about religion.NO ONE WITH COMPLETE KNOWLEDGE.

WE RESPECT ALL WHAT THEY DID,YES, BUT WE DON’T DEIFY THEM OR WE DON’T, AT LEAST, FOLLOW THEM BLINDLY.WE DON’T CONSECRATE THEM OR THEIR WORK.who is doing this because of lack of knowledge is doing big mistake.

yes Mohamed was 53 when he married Aicha 18 years old girl.

All resources:alkamil (the complete history),Damascus history,attabary history,albidaya wa annihaya(the biggining and the end)bagdad history,the chronology of the death of known people,all these and more said that the prophetic mission was 13 y in makkah,10y in madina city,so 610 prophetic mission 623 immigration to madina city,633 the death of Mohamed.

Ibn kathir in albidaya wa annihaya,said that Aicha was among the first women entered to islam before Mohamed declared his call ,during the secret call period(secret call 3years) ,it means before 614,so Aicha and other female before 614 became muslim, if we take what albukhary said (aicha was born in the fourth year of prophetic mission started and married 6 ectr……..)we will find that aicha  at that time wasn’t ever born or at least she was baby,but if we consider that she was by 614 a muslim and she was born before the prophetic mission by 4y =606,THIS  will definitely stand with WHAT ALBUKHARY said narrating from Aicha herself,she said and alburary cited this “that she knows ( be aware ) her parents only as muslim,and Mohamed visiting them morning and afternoon and when the situation of the muslim people get worst her father Abubakr went to Alhabasha “and we know that the immigration to alhabasha was in 615 so how she can recognize all this details if she was born in 614.albukhary cited this tradition without asking himself about how she could be witness of her father immigration if she was born after the prophetic mission by 4 years.is it enough to be sure that she wasn’t 9 but 18 when Mohamed marry her,and yes he was 53 years old and he died in between her neck and chest hugging him as she said.

Now the issue  about quran or Koran,quran was left by Mohamed and was totally written. I will discuss this next time to show you how.

Two things I have a problem with Lonely:

1) there IS no god, or Yahweh, or Allah, or whatever anyone chooses to call this non-existent entity.

2) Most women I know have no interest in being "protected" or "maintained" - they simply wish to be free to make their own decisions.

Also Lonely, would you PLEASE assure Ms Molly Cashio that I have not mistreated you in any way, or humiliated you because of the language barrier, which you and I both acknowledge exists --

@Suzann,if someone believes in non existing god how he can not believe in creature, smaller than a mule and bigger than a donkey

Ah, this is the fabulous White Unicorn - human imagination knows no bounds - 

And if someone does not believe in existing god how he can believe  this nonsense.

Exactly - not in any way shape or form.

34. Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other.

This is stupid, evil, misogynist, controlling, inadequate human men who have 'made this up.

Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient '.

Do you really understand the repercussions of this statement from someone like me.

It's all about blaming and controlling women - how about instead, controling the men. Male and female babies are conditioned, indoctrinated, brainwashed from the time they are born.

allah orders them to guard is what husband in this world ask his wife to be -

No, no, no - civilized, decent, confident men do not do this - nobody ORDERS  a woman to do anything - this is so wrong, and so evil on so many levels. Does not happen in a civilized country.

That is why men cover the women - brainwashed claptrap - you cannot order anybody to do anything - it is all about respect, respect and more  respect - and if either one, male or female don't have respect in every way - get rid of them.

You can quote bits of koran, as do xians quote the bible - some good philosophy and morals, but majority, made up stories -  I don't think the koran or bible was written by anybody supernatural, superior, or knolwledgable in any way. Just men changing and adding the rules to suit them, as they went along. Anybody can do that if they want power over people. 

Now the issue  about quran or Koran,quran was left by Mohamed and was totally written. 

Nope, neither was the bible - all made up rubbish by men who wanted power - that simple - and in the meantime, in many muslim countries, women are subjugated and controlled - covered and uneducated. Women might be able to get educated to the highest of their abilities, go anywhere they want or get any job they want or talk to whomever they want, whenever they want in your country, but their are millions of women in muslim countries are leading a terrible, horrific life.

The three religions that we talk about. judaism. christian and muslim - all made up, fanciful imagination,THEN copied, layer upon layer upon layer - nothing original really.

Your koran should not be singling out women for anything - so don't bother about  - Now the issue  about quran or Koran, quran was left by Mohamed and was totally written. Just made up stories by an egoistical inadequate male - that simple.

There was/is no allah, there are fairy tales known as the koran, muhammad an inadequate male, no angels, no voices in anybodies head.

How about you have a look at some pictures and youtube videos about how women are treated - all stemming from a made up allah over to mohammed.

By the by - the computer programme sometimes doesn't let you post because the thread is too long, to reply where one wants to - that happens to all of us :D

And also, your English is very good - I for one, cannot speak anything other than English - so on that point you are ahead :D

What would happen if i called Allah a figment of the imagination?

What would happen if I called mohammed a tyrant?

What would happen if I burnt the koran?

@archy - your replies are succinct and respectful - always enjoy reading your comments.

@the lonely

Sahih Muslim, Book 001, Number 0309:

It is narrated on the authority of Anas b. Malik that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: I was brought al-Buraq who is an animal white and long, larger than a donkey but smaller than a mule, who would place his hoof a distance equal to the range of vision. I mounted it and came to the Temple  - Bait Maqdis in Jerusalem, then tethered it to the ring used by the prophets. I entered the mosque and prayed two rak'ahs in it, and then came out and Gabriel brought me a vessel of wine and a vessel of milk.

Mohammed flew on al-Buraq to the temple in Jerusalem, tied it up to a ring "the prophets" had used, and went on in to the Temple to pray.

Lonely - Do you believe this happened - this is the thing, Lonely, primitive uneducated people could and did believe this codswallop, but your mohammed knew it was a pack of lies. That is the sad part.

"codswallpop?" - and that would be Aussie for what, in English?

Well, in English it would be... codswallop (seeing as it's not an Australian thing per se).  One could also say 'nonsense'.

Being a lady :D I don't swear in public, unless I am truly goaded, and lady goes out the window, and turns into werewolf, frothing at the mouth - it's just another way of saying 'that is absolute bull shit of the highest order' etc. etc. etc. 

That's how I mean it, anyway.

It is England English, but I say a lot of words in England English. You wouldn't understand the Australian version of this - it really isn't very nice :D

RE: "(seeing as it's not an Australian thing per se)"

But it was an Australian saying it --

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