There is a pretty lively Facebook debate going on right now, that I thought everyone would be interested in, particularly the responses from Erica Hines. It's on The Thinking Atheist's profile and has been going on since yesterday. There are lots of great responses from fellow atheists... perhaps some of you would like to jump in and get involved! (I left out some of the comments that didn't apply to the main conversation)


It all started with a video post with the following caption:

i used to believe that atheism was right, but this video changed my views



Erica Hines

Actually, as a Christian, I find this man's arguements to be quite weak in making all our beliefs irrefutable.
Erica Hines
Actually, he did a pretty good job, which was my original point. Jesus Is the Way, The Truth, and The Life. His miracles prove it, raising from the dead proves it and His beautiful creation proves it. It takes more faith to believe in evolution that creation...that's for sure. :)
(me) ‎@Erica, I really wish creationists would stop using this argument, it is completely empty and lacking any intelligent thought process. You have faith in something without a shred of evidence. Those of us who understand evolution accept it as fact because of overwhelming evidence.
There is zero proof of miracles, the resurrection of christ (or the existence of christ for that matter) other than what was written down centuries AFTER Jesus supposedly existed. Essentially, all you have to go on is hearsay. Tell me, how does that count as proof?
Erica Hines
‎"The Thinking Atheist" What an oxymoron. Can you give me any shred of evidence that the fossil record shows us evolving from anything? Almost all our early scientists believed in a creator-Newton for one. You can discount Jesus conveniently because then it blows all our beliefs out of the water. Nothing can create everything. Look at the experiments of Louis Pasteur.
(me) Again, believing in a "creator" or being a deist is completely different than believing in Jesus, Yahweh, Ra or any other god. Many scientists are deists, and it is very different than believing in a personal god.

As far as the fossil record goes, you can find lots of information regarding human evolution, because it's everywhere. There are many books on the subject as well, I can recommend some to you if you'd like. I don't mean that in a condescending way at all, it's very fascinating and your comments tell me you don't know much about it. Here is just one of many sites available regarding the human fossil record:
I forgot to mention your comment about Pasteur. I'm assuming you mean his experiments regarding spontaneous generation? That proves to me even more how little you actually know about evolution. The Big Bang and Evolution are not the same thing. Also, if it's impossible for nothing to create something, how can a god exist? If everything MUST be created by something, then god would also need a creator.
Jonathan Cuellar
Our early scientists also believed in alchemy and blood-letting. What's the point?
Tim Simon
Erica, you're not very good at researching the things you immediately discount, are you?
Erica Hines
bloodletting? I thought this was an atheist page. We're really grasping at straws here! lol
Tim: Regarding the fossil record: I researched it. I saw a picture linked to what is now called a human. It looked like a baby dinosaur! I have researched it all--have you even seen Richard Dawkins in the movie: Expelled with Ben Stein. Have a look see at Dawkins and you'll know why I discount atheism and evolution.
Melissa M Heide
I realize that the Pasteur experiment about spontaneous generation is a demonstration of what happens in a closed system (yadda yadda second law of thermodynamics yadda yadda peanut butter jars) but from what I remember the earth isn't a closed system. Doesn't all life on this planet depend on energy from the sun (think back to learning about photosynthesis)? And what about all the other experiments out there? What about the Miller-Urey experiment or the Szostak experiment? What about the more complete fossil records we do have that show the evolution of whales and horses? What about our chromosome #2 that demonstrates the fusion of two chromosomes from a common ancestor? Do you really understand how science works or why Evolution is an accepted theory? There is so much more to consider when it comes to determining such an all-encompassing scientific explanation as Evolution. Evolution isn't based on just one single experiment nor can it be explained in a simple message thread.

I also realize that hearing these responses from people who no longer share (or never have shared) the same beliefs as you can take the focus away from the issues that really need to be addressed (mainly what exactly Evolution is and how it works). Maybe it would be better to hear it from someone who has similar beliefs as yourself.

All I ask is that you simply take the time to research, read and understand exactly what Evolution is. I'm sure you would want other people to put the same thought and effort into understanding your beliefs. And although Evolution isn't a belief or a faith (it's simply the best scientific explanation we have for the evidence presented to us) it's worthwhile taking the time to understand. Hope this helps.
Erica Hines
Oh, and Annie...God didn't come from nothing. He always was.
Jake 'the-Ape' Nealis
Erica, so for ALL of eternity in the past god sat around doing nothing then suddenly got bored 6000 years ago and made everything?

Yeah, that makes perfect sense.
Jonathan Cuellar
That's a perfectly irrefutable rational scientific explanation. He always was. I'm sorry if I sound rude but you have moved entirely away from rational discussion.
Erica Hines
Well, according to evolution, something always was...right? Really. Do you actually believe that at one time there was absolutely nothing and then something just formed out of the blue-it just became? Then it grew or evolved into something else and now we have DNA???? Now THAT is irrational!
Erica Hines
I happen to have an extensive medical background. I know about evolution. Things evolve. Micro-organisms, gene mutations and simple transference of viruses and bacterial infections from one person to another evolve. I get it. But, really! When were talking about how life began, it's a real stretch to think the complexities of the human brain evolved from something minute and simple.
LeGit L Moore
Yes, I find it very hard to believe that life popped out of no where magically by some skydaddy. I also find it hard to believe that IT or HE came out of NOWHERE as well! -___-
Erica Hines
And after all I just explained above. Quite a shame. Coming from a medical background and understanding DNA and it's complexities--if you don't take a look at this link, you're knee will be bowing anyway to Thee Skydaddy very soon. DNA completely discounts evolution.
Myr Zelig
‎@Erica: Evolution doesn't even try to explain how life began...
LeGit L Moore
LOL what did you explain? "God didn't come from nothing. He always was." This assertion requires evidence. You need to present evidence that such a consciousness exists, AND you need to provide evidence that god is a male. Also, what does evolution have to do with the existence of a deity? I know PLENTY of theists AND Christians who accept evolution as a SCIENTIFIC theory.
Jonathan Cuellar
I've said this before. I'm not asserting a complete impossibility of other intelligent life, biological or otherwise. The universe is a mystery. I just don't see any evidence of the existence of a deity or other higher entity that expects any form of worship from humanity in exchange for having created humanity. It's true that I DO NOT KNOW how we got here for certain. Neither do you. No one does for certain. As an atheist, I do not believe in a god/deity/higher spiritual power that is responsible for the existence of humanity. There is no evidence to support that hypothesis whatsoever. Now if tomorrow, your God were to speak to humanity in an audible voice for all humanity to hear and say, "Look, I'm here. I exist. I just woke up from a 5,000 year long power nap. What's up, humanity? Oh, there are doubters? Understandable. Here, let me lovingly produce all irrefutable evidence and prove that I did in fact create humanity..." I would still insist on reviewing the evidence until satisfied that it passed scientific method. I expect that, with your background, you would understand the scientific method.

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lol love it. But just remember that if we could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people (House). It's crazy how religion can completely shut down a person's critical thinking skills in regards to their own religious beliefs.
Erica is an intelligent idiot.
I can't laugh at such stupidity in people. It just makes me sad. Am I too far gone or not far gone enough?
17th. law of psychotherapy: You cannot talk the client out of his delusion.
Apparently, and "extensive medical background" doesn't amount to much anymore.
Simplicity breeds complexity. Not the other way around. That's how evolution works. Actually that's pretty much how the whole damn universe works. If it's so easy to imagine a god who always was forever and ever and sat around for all eternity(which would mean he never got around to creating the world), why is it so hard to imagine that the universe, in a godless state, "always was" or at least existed in some form for all eternity?
Because a universe that always was isn't going to save you from death.
Bingo! This is the heart of the issue that nobody wants to admit when trying to sound rational.
I love this! I'm so glad it was posted. Very fun.

I don't understand how people think that a super-being hanging out in the sky creating the universe (which is both very simple and very complex) makes more sense than it evolving from a beginning to how it is now using the same physical laws that have always been. How does a fantastical being make more sense than nature doing its thing? I can't see a god, no matter how immensely magical and clever, putting together an entire universe in seven days. Well, six. He had to rest. It was exhausting.
How true1
Erica seems to forget that the theory of evolution lead to the discovery of DNA, and pretty much everything else in the field of medicine that she claims to understand so well.
The atelic or teleonomic argument presents the case that the weight of evidence produces no evidence whatsoever for any divine inputand intent Therefore, there can be no intent behind thd Big Bang[s] . And this not only applies to teleological arguments but to all that require intent- Primary Ccause, Grand Miracle Monger and so forth. Then also having incoherent,contradicdtory attributes, He cannot exist as the ignostic argument so argues. And to aver intent begs the question! Therefore, as an ignostic strong atheist, I'm a number seven accoridng to Clinto Richard Dawkins, my Facebook friend.
Why do people use pareidolias when they see what is not there/ Scientists are studying why people see agency when there is none. Another scientific -based argument is thatjust as people see Marian apparitions when no Mary shows up , they see intent and design when there are only teleonomy and patterns
Tleology refers to mind's intent whilst teleonomy refers only to natural causes per the presumption fo naturalism.
I make up my own intents of which to post and blog the world over in many languages.!



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