My mother always told me that doubt in the word of Christ was really Satan speaking to me. He was a clever bloke who was trying to subvert my faith in Jesus and God. I never thought he was quite that clever as described by my mother. After all, the Christians were on to this ruse if it was indeed true. I imagined that a truly clever trick was for Satan to pretend to be God and brain wash his followers into refusing to listen to any evidence or reason that he was not a loving, one true God. I tried to present this hypothesis to my mother who would hear none of it. She would not even let me finish explaining, which in my young mind, strengthened my belief that maybe I had it right after all. That clever devil!

With these memories in mind, I thought of a question that I would certainly like to have answered. I know many here have decent to excellent knowledge of the Bible and I was inspired by a chart showing statistics on killing and body counts for the Rambo film franchise. Here is my query to you all.

Who killed more people in the Bible? Yahweh or Satan?

I don't remember ever hearing of Satan killing anyone. His stories were always of temptation. He was trying to persuade humans to come to his side by their own volition. God murdered left and right and demanded love and obedience. It certainly seems to me now that Satan really was a benevolent deity and Yahweh was a malevolent bully.

So, are there any instances in the bible where Lucifer actually killed anyone? Like directly? No "God killed them because Satan tempted them so Satan is to blame" crap. I mean directly responsible.

I look forward to your replies.

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*whistles slowly*

Holy crap. You guys are on this shit.
Haha! I'll have to keep that in mind if I ever debate you again.
Is it wrong if I'd rather enjoy watch some hapless soul battle you and your wealth of sources in verbal battle?
Yeah, now that I think about it if what the bible says is true, which it isn't, then god is a total dick.
Actually.. I don't think it was 'the devil' that killed Job's family. That was all god.
Secondly the names Lucifer, Satan and Beelzebub aren't interchangeable. These are different entities with the exception of Lucifer possibly taking on the name Satan after the rebellion. Lucifer means light-bringer, Satan means adversary. The only link in the Bible is a single passage that states that Lucifer fell to earth in a flash of lightning, indicating that he might have been one of the third that was cast out. Beelzebub is actually a general of hell and stood beside Satan, so clearly wasn't him....

By the way.. how come Satan can whisper in your ear and plant doubt so clearly when god can't whisper back and clear it up? And if he can, why doesn't he?
Perhaps we should bring God up on charges for international war crimes?

Didn't some guy try to sue God in such a manner and it was dismissed because the courts had no way to bring the defendant in to stand trial? I'd want to sue him at least for all the "acts" attributed to him that cost me my insurance deductible. Throw hail at my car, will ya!
Yep. A Nebraska State Senator sued God over natural disasters. 'He said the Almighty has made terroristic threats against the senator and his constituents in Omaha, inspired fear and caused "widespread death, destruction and terrorization of millions upon millions of the Earth's inhabitants."'
That guy is my hero. Hahaha!
I had thought that the names were all the same. I didn't realize that the bible named generals of hell and what not. Learned me something!

So it has come apparent that Lucifer was a rationalist and God threw him out for being the voice of reason.

The numbers always vary a little... But mainly its "a-helluva-lot to 10."
Nice graphic! Illustrates why "we" fear the wrath of God as opposed to the wrath of Satan. Satan seems like a laid back guy it would be good to have a beer with. Hmmm....I think I am Satan! Except for the killing ten people part.
Even Satan's ten were either under the command of god.. or actually done but god himself, but with a bit more clever wording.

And actually, there isn't a lot of info in the Bible on the war in heaven. It was a work of fiction that immortalized Satan's sin of arrogance and wanting to be worshiped.
In the OT and gnostic texts, the devil character was sort of just like a jailer hired by god. It isn't until after the turn that evil becomes attributed to him instead of god's own commands, probably because people started to dislike worshiping an asshole god. With the division came a need for why there was one in the first it's really rather a case of man creating god in his image. We wrote the books, made up the reasoning, and here ya go.
Sounds like a pretty weak god that lost a third of his angels to mismanagement, right?
Either way, Satan, Lucifer, the devil, Evil sorta gets a bum rap.


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