I am putting this question forward to the Free-thinking community/ Atheists community. If in the near future a particular country that has declared itself as a purely Circular State is being threatened militarily by Religious or Religion aligned countries, would you take up arms in defence of such a state. If you would do that what would be your motivating reasons and if you would not what would be the reasons?

Think of Jews young men all over the globe who would have dual citizenship so that they would go and fight in Israel. Would a time come when Atheists and Free thinkers align themselves with such a country that they would rather fosake their respective countries of birth, in order to militarily defend the "homeland"?

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Ya you kinda did answer, howerever I am not  getting the collective attitude, (as Jewish young men example), I am getting from you a personalized defence of your stance. Would you go and be militarily trained to join the army of Atheist defending a secular country that is under threat from countries like Israel, Arabic Countries and some crazy African countries like Nigeria? Would you eventually die in trenches defending atheism?

what if people decide to mass kill everyone who " do not believe there is  evedence of a god"?

It is not possible to locate everyone who is atheist. Perhaps the technology will be developed...but that's sci fi right now.

Early 80's, I was able to find a list of Humanists that lived in a small town where I lived. I started to look these folks up and found that none of them wanted to be connected to a local group for meetings. After the course of a few years in that town I found out why. The local conservative churches had seemed to have a partly organized suppression program. I backed into this after being asked to join the JC's. The JC's were promoting School Prayer and I was asked to sign on because I was a 'young professional'. I told them point blank that I could not support it, and believed that we should not force such a policy onto others.  

Would you go and be militarily trained to join the army of Atheist defending a secular country that is under threat from countries like Israel, Arabic Countries and some crazy African countries like Nigeria? Would you eventually die in trenches defending atheism?

It depends on what you mean by a secular country.

The constitution that established the United States is secular in that it makes no mention of God, and says nothing about religion except to exclude it from government and allow the freedom of it. But the population of the US is 20% irreligious and 5% atheists, with both percentages rising rapidly.

France is 29% atheist, one of the highest rates in the world, with a Constitution that establishes a secular state with freedom of religion, but French law nevertheless imposes some restrictions on religious expression in state settings, such as disallowing students to display crosses in public schools or government employees to wear turbans or religious head scarves.

China is 47% atheist, with a constitution granting an Orwellian "freedom of 'normal' religious activity", which consists of state-approved and state-run religious institutions, such as the Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association. That is, little or no freedom of religion.

North Korea is an atheist state officially by its constitution. Organized religious activity is banned as a potential threat to the leadership, except for traditional Korean folk religions (which are sham organizations run by the state) and the cult of personality surrounding the Dear Leader (which is strictly enforced as state dogma). Information is sketchy, but there are reports are that Christians are imprisoned, tortured or executed.

Now, not to be indelicate, but if you torched North Korea or China, I'd sooner let them burn than bother pissing on them. But France, the United States, and countries like them-- free and irreligious or becoming irreligious-- are worth fighting to defend. But I'd be less eager to die for my country than to help the other guy die for his.

I want religion to die out because it is false and harmful, but not by giving up freedom, the loss of which is more harmful.

what if people decide to mass kill everyone who " do not believe there is  evedence of a god"?

If such a totalitarian regime existed, had the power, and then actually started that kind of mass murder, I would stand with atheists and theists alike to fight them. (Although I doubt the military would want me back, now that I'm in my mid-40s, unless things were looking dire.) I don't believe in gods, but I believe freedom and democracy are worth fighting for.

LMAO Belle!!! Haven't seen this side of you...

In answer to the question, No, I will not go over sea's to defend a country who's population of secularist is being threatened by a hoard of, as Belle said, Terrorist. So let me qualify that:

Right now we are at war with a bunch of zealots who want us dead! So we pack up our young men, train them, arm them, and send them to kick major ass in far away places, in order to stop these crazy bastards from killing us. Same fucking thing right? The only difference is that they, in the words of John Rambo, "drew first blood". I work in Manhattan so I had a close up view of the horror on 9/11. If called to fight against these crazy bastards I would go. But I'm speaking as a veteran who served his country honorably. Same as my father did and my older brother.

Only difference between my scenario and yours is that I'm not flying to "Atlantis" to defend the rights of non believers there. Although, if you really think about it, I am fighting for the rights of "non believers", those who don't adhere to the teachings of Islam, the world over by proxy. Confused? Imagine how i feel right now...

The U.S. is not considered "the Great Satan" because we are Christian. 

We are considered "the Great Satan" because we are viewed as hedonistic secularists, given to drunkenness and debauchery and spreading that culture of licentiousness around the world though all forms of Cultural Supremacy - including military action, economic coercion, media, etc.

I guess it depends on what you reference as a standard for behavior. Hedonism trumps Sharia Law or the Torah.

Both! You're one sassy lady! I love it...

@ Noel and Belle Rose. I understand you guys are honestly speaking from the American point, esp when you talk about terrorists, 9/11 and serving your country. This is about whether either of you, or any free thinker for that matter, would do or not do. Maybe Noel qualified his reasons of not. Will  it not be a noble contribution to the freedoms of the people to fight for that? I know @ Belle " Atheisim is not a religion or even a statement". But would it be not in the interest of freedom to defend poeple's choice to be ungodly?

I think 'freedom' is about honoring the possibility of 'something more'. A 'true believer' might want their belief to be 'complete', but another might want to assert that it is 'NOT!' Allowing this tension to exist, without attempting overly suppress it, except via intelligent(in place of unitelligent discourse, which seems to be the norm), might contribute to the creation/maintenance of a culture worth being part of.

@Belle Rose I mark you as No when it must become a mob attitude, and yes when it hits home... Love the discussion and thanks for making it worth exchanging ideas....


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