...a couple staffers had been armed?

Tags: control, gun, guns, killings, mass

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Always the diplomat --

I have been accused of writing and speeking in complete sentences. As I re-read the last, it seems clear that I failed to include several key words.

Since many here are not accomplished fabricators of good prose, I tend to re-read other's contributions a few times to extract meaning. Your prose sometimes is a challenge also, but I am not deeply taxed to extract your meaning, most of the time.

It might be that along with other experiences, I have become very good at making sense out of non-sense. Lewis Carol does not seem to be channeled here by anyone as far as I know.

I am not attempting the be another Michael. His prose was a painful attempt at mental abuse. 

Thank you for the kind correction.

What a brilliant idea,  so lets legalize explosives, grenades, nerve gas, and everything like that as well.

@marc- That is exactly it. there is no reason why we cant attempt both at the same time

"Our tools are less the problem than what ugliness could emerge out of our minds."

I said 'less', not none. Humans choose to make these things, some for seeming good reasons, at the time, but what of the motivations?

I think it would be better to put more thought into finding out how we can reduce the number of people flipping out like this, instead of reducing the number of tools.

That's easy: reduce the number of people. 

Gun ownership is very highly regulated in China. The system is not perfct and there is a black market for guns but based on gun violence statistics it is quite effective.


Funny how this article includes an apology to the victims of a gun violence incident in the US, but it is written in 2007 and is referring to Virginia Tech.

So I doubt if its a matter of the seriousness of the criminal. The question I had, is would a 20 year old nut case be connected enough to the black market gun trade in China to get a gun. I doubt it.

...based on gun violence statistics (Chinese gun laws are) quite effective.

Marc, you're so silly! Your logic works only if you assume that there's no difference between a Chinese citizen and an American citizen. But anyone who knows anything about China knows Chinese are far more obedient and far less anti-authoritarian than Americans. 

@k - RE: "What if MacGyver had attacked this school? Should duct tape be banned?" - no, but bubble gum and paperclips are definitely on the contraband list!

I'm with you - I said early on that we need to look at the relationship the guy had with his mother, and the fact that he kept his room pristine - what 20-year old does that?

The list of fatalities would have probably been longer. If armed guards have weapons holstered with safety on and the gunman caught them by surprise they would have been shot before even drawing their weapon. Security guards would be  the first target. Not only that but one or two guards can not cover the whole school.

You're assuming the armed guards are in uniform perhaps by the entrance. I would prefer they simply be either armed teachers some of whom would be competent gun users either through military service, hunting, or target practice or plain clothed cops. Covering the whole school is hardly necessary in a case like this with one shooter. Finding the shooter is no problem. Follow the gun shots!

Let me add too, that it wouldn't even be necessary for every school to have someone in it who is armed undercover (as it were), the mere fact that there could be someone there would deter many such attacks.

And please spare me the "guy is nuts he doesn't care" arguments.  Incidents like this do not happen where the perp knows there could be armed people.  When is the last time someone went berserk at a gun show?  If the gun-phobic bedwetters are right, a gun show is exactly where you should expect to see the OK Corral.

It's ALWAYS schools, post offices and other places posted as forbidding weapons.  The perp knows he will have a herd of defenseless victims.  Whatever sick impulse pushes him to off a bunch of people who aren't even the ones responsible for the stress in his life, he knows he wants to kill as many as possible before he can be stopped.  That means a crowded place full of unarmed people.

Attacks like this happen in schools BECAUSE guns are strictly forbidden in schools.  And I think those who insisted on this ban and still insist on it despite its demonstrated worthelessness bear some blame for that. 

the thing is, various school districts already have their own police. as do various transit departments. most of these school police concentrate on the high schools as these young adults we fail to parent need armed guards. the school districts with community colleges have a sizable police force. guns in the hands of teachers is about as useful as making cops teach kids science....

like you said, it usually gives these creatures bravado to know they are the only armed one. dumb idea or not, a parked squad car at almost every school in my area seems like a decent concept. the first ones to be "targeted" as an argument... you have to have the guile to attack an armed police officer. looking at the history and faces of these creatures... i dont see it. i dont see them engaging a "cop" probably why most end their lives before the remote possibility of a "cop" arriving with a gun of their own.

ill be all for "gun control" but all the arguments usually brought up for it...makes it a fruitless emotional gesture to put this sort of tragedy behind you. we have a serious cultural problem in the U.S. screaming about guns and the evil NRA is just a symptom of the problem. sorry it is. there is so much that needs to be changed, that concentrating on any one thing is childish, but maturity is not a characteristic we have in public discourse.

Your suggestion of a squad car at every school misses the point perfectly.

The point is to allow ordinary citizens, who have applied for and gotten concealed carry permits (so that the shooter cannot know whether anyone is armed or who they are) to carry on school grounds.  If you don't do this, but do put cop cars on every campus eventually one of them will be called away for some emergency--and now the shooter knows that the school is utterly undefended.



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