...a couple staffers had been armed?

Tags: control, gun, guns, killings, mass

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If your task is to kill or capture an individual with minimal "civilian" casualties (more and more a concern in today's 24 hour news cycle world), it strikes me that tossing a grenade into the room with that person without regard to whoever is there is a very stupid way to do it.

Allow me to comment on your numbers.

Marc, if you will click on the link to the CDC's actual numbers and data (that I have given above) you will be able to ascertain for yourself that over 60 percent of the deaths by firearm are from suicide, if you study the data further you will see that this only represents 50 percent of the total suicides (these people will still kill themselves).

Of the total deaths by firearm less the one tenth of one percent occur in schools (this includes high schools and colleges as well).

Rational analysis of a problem requires conscious effort not just emotion hyperbole

England has a higher rate of rape, do you hate women?

Australia's rate of violent crime against the elderly is increasing since their gun confiscation program, do you hate the elderly?

England doesn't have a 2nd Amendment, neither does Australia, we do.  If you don't like the 2nd Amendment, then change it, don't violate it. 

Gregg and Unseen
I will respond but I am off out of town to church, attending the baptism of my twin cousins. I need the comedy.

Careful to not get the holy water on your self, it might be caustic to atheists.

Baptism does not need to be the end of rational thought, sadly it can happen before it begins.

I did have an enjoyable time sitting next to my son and asking him if he had ever witnessed an actually act of cannibalism.

As a typical 16 year he replied "Huh?" So, I explained to him that Catholics believe that the host becomes the actual body of Christ during the Eucharist ceremony and therefore everyone that got up for communion was a cannibal.

I was proud of him earlier as he took my cue not to kneel during the indicated times during the mass. Later he asked me why and I told him, there are certain things worth kneeling for in your life and this isn't one of them.

My wife on the other hand who never ever goes to church other than baptisms and funerals of family, popped up and down as required. You can't win them all.

It's called Catholic Calisthenics, I was going to post a video that explains it all...but...after watching it, I decided to kill myself instead..........:x        

I received an invite to a Baptism recently, I called and told the person who sent the invitation that I wouldn't be attending.

My granddaughter's brainwashing is beginning, a sad day.

I used it as a teaching opportunity, my presence or absence wouldn't have changed a thing, but my passive aggressive approach sent the message I intended. My wife's family and mine are native Sicilian, 3rd grade educated tops. Superstitions of all kinds are deeply seated in their culture. My generation had a better opportunity to use their brains on the matter, but ignorance is ignorance, I suppose.
As someone who is hoping for less death in general, I'm not sure that self-inflicted gun death makes much difference than outwardly directed gun death.

I did learn something from the data however. Gun suicide is a very popular was for the 55 plus crowd to do themselves in. So your statement that 'these people will still do themselves in' implies that if we were to make it more difficult to obtain one of the most accessible and effective ways to inflict death, that 100% of these people will still find an alternate way to do it and be 100% effective at it. I'm not convinced that that would be the case. The path of least resistance is still in play and at least some men would be separated from some boys if the path were made more difficult.

So even if you put aside the 60% suicide statistic, the remaining 40% is not worth addressing? If I were to make a broad assumption that suicide by gun was equally distributed across these states, I realize that this is an assumption but it seems not to be much of a stretch. That it would equally effect the data and the percentages of gun death for other reasons would stay relatively the same. The fact that this data is normalized to 100,000 would make all the data sets go up and down together.

I was also interested at how unpopular killing by a motor vehicle is since it is such a popular refrain, as in 'Why don't we ban cars'.

When you ask what I have against the elderly, in light of the popularity of elder suicide by gun, I could ask the same of you. The crime argument is a good one, but it is not the same as the gun death argument.

So I guess I'm now wondering if the sales of guns is off the table for a gun control discussion, just what factors of liability would you be in favor of?

Required gun safes
Required firearm liability insurance
Liability if an unreported stolen gun is used in a crime
Investigation and criminal charges if a potentially lethal gun was not properly secured that resulted in its theft.

It seems to me that if the people kill people vs. guns kill people argument were to make any sense at all, these basic safeguards would be fully supported by gun holders if you acknowledge that the person with the gun is doing the damage, we should be more consistantly required to protect against something as undesirable as death from such a lethal tool.
Also, Gregg, I am a bit confused by your reference to rape statistics in England. According to this data published in the Guardian it seems that crime is down in many, many categories in England. I did see a reference in another source about the increase in rape.

So is the point that a lack of readily available guns only matters for the crime statistics that are going up but not to the numerous other categories where it is going down?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jul/14/crime-statistic...

Rape

England less guns then America more rape per 100,000.

America more guns then England less rape per 100,000.

Violent crimes exist throughout the world.

Crime stats go up and down.  What woman cares if she was the first rape of the year or the last rape of the year.

Does a parent care that her child was killed in a year that stats showed homicides were declining?

The "WHY" is much more important then the resulting crime.

This country could help itself greatly by declaring the "War on Drugs" over and redirecting those resources to the "Why" of violent crimes and drug use, be proactive not reactive.

Well no. Have you given thought to the training or readiness of anyone that would be armed. One of the issues I have with anyone owning a gun is that most people, including those extreme gun "enthusiasts", is that most of them are not psychologically stable enough, nor have they received enough regular training to be able to react and return fire in a calm enough state of mind to not: shoot other civilians, damage some part of the surrounding that leads to injury or death, or injure themselves. The gun issue is primarily a social issue then a rights issue. 

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