...a couple staffers had been armed?

Tags: control, gun, guns, killings, mass

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First its cultural differences between the US and other countries, now its cultural differences between the states.How about the data that clearly indicates that in areas of the country with more guns per capita there are more gun deaths, and where there are less guns less death. On the bottom the list NY and NJ, pretty scary big cities. You ever been to Newark?

Not one comment on the numbers. Rand and the CDC have no dog in this race. She make an interesting observation is all.

I have been to Los Angeles and I live in Cleveland. What does where I live have to do with anything?

There are are real cultural differences between different parts of the country (remember the recent election? red states? blue states?). 

What do you think your statistics prove? They don't prove that it's merely the presence of guns that account for them.

Newark is a cesspool. It has a low per capita rate of gun ownership and a rate of gun death that is half the national average. That means regardless of whether they are good guys or bad guys less of everybody ends up dead.

The top gun per capita ownership states have 1.5x to 2x the rate of gun death. You can be as prepared as you want, the data correlates that the more guns people have the higher likelihood that you will die from a gun in that area.

2nd amendment aside, please explain how statistically, a state that has more guns in it makes the average person that lives there more safe from death due to a gun.

2nd amendment aside, please explain how statistically, a state that has more guns in it makes the average person that lives there more safe from death due to a gun.

Don't put words in my mouth. Where did I say that in states (or cities) with more guns people are safer? Please refute an argument I have actually made.

Apologies Unseen. I keep forgetting how narrowly you defined this debate, and it has meandered back in forth to a general gun control debate and your original topic.

I already agreed that extensively trianed and vetted professionals would make a difference. Not a teacher with an 8 hour course and gun in the top drawer of his/her desk next to the extra box of chalk.

In any large school, there will be a few teachers with military experience. Unlike police, whose primary training is in keeping the peace, a military person is trained primarily to find and neutralize a target. I would favor military training over police training. If it's a keeping the peace situation (an unruly individual, perhaps), call the cops. If someone is actively shooting, call a soldier.

Unseen, I am curious, just a few questions for you. Do you advocate armed guards in private schools? How about movie theaters or post offices? Lets face it, there have been mass killings at military bases. Perhaps public school children are a special class? Do you really think ex-military are really the best idea? My father was a front line Korean war veteran. He ran a Quad-50 half track. Lets just say it wasn't used against aircraft as it was intended. He did the best he could, but was not the most stable guy I ever met.

If you can afford a fire alarm, wouldn't you have one? Why not an armed staff member in a school? You mention private schools. I suspect private schools have a lot more security than public schools because they can afford them. 

We seem to want to protect school children, I haven't heard the same outcry for theater patrons or postal customers, have you?

So, I guess protecting children is perceived as a different case.

If your task is to kill or capture an individual with minimal "civilian" casualties (more and more a concern in today's 24 hour news cycle world), it strikes me that tossing a grenade into the room with that person without regard to whoever is there is a very stupid way to do it.

Allow me to comment on your numbers.

Marc, if you will click on the link to the CDC's actual numbers and data (that I have given above) you will be able to ascertain for yourself that over 60 percent of the deaths by firearm are from suicide, if you study the data further you will see that this only represents 50 percent of the total suicides (these people will still kill themselves).

Of the total deaths by firearm less the one tenth of one percent occur in schools (this includes high schools and colleges as well).

Rational analysis of a problem requires conscious effort not just emotion hyperbole

England has a higher rate of rape, do you hate women?

Australia's rate of violent crime against the elderly is increasing since their gun confiscation program, do you hate the elderly?

England doesn't have a 2nd Amendment, neither does Australia, we do.  If you don't like the 2nd Amendment, then change it, don't violate it. 

Gregg and Unseen
I will respond but I am off out of town to church, attending the baptism of my twin cousins. I need the comedy.

Careful to not get the holy water on your self, it might be caustic to atheists.

Baptism does not need to be the end of rational thought, sadly it can happen before it begins.


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