...a couple staffers had been armed?

Tags: control, gun, guns, killings, mass

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And who doesn't just love Chuck?

You mean Chuck Woolery the devout Born Again Christian religious fanatic who wept at The Passion of the Christ and went back for seconds? That Chuck? He's almost as creepy as Charlton Heston.

Sadly, I have seen my share of police departments that have injured/killed protestors. I quess The US and Iran should be friends, accross police departments.

'A gun behind every blade of grass.' This would be environmental disaster, any way, if this were the case, I would have two guns in a closet, government issue! The image qouting the Japanese emperor, was front a US made movie, who knows how historical that was. 

~ 135000 gunmaker workers? Lay off? Such a small population seems small in comparison to the cost to familes due to death, or even layoff from other corporations that in sum layouf millions.

Funny how he keeps harping on the 'liberal media', or the 'liberal assault on the constitution'. When I talk with my liberal friends, I see them profoundly concerned on the corporate assault on the constitution via corporate personhood. 'Liberal Media', the 'Media' is a platform for selling, followed by corporate and political interests. 'Liberal' or 'Conservative' are nice polarizing terms that can be seen as part of the sales ploy. If there is an issue it is based upon idealizations concern values.  

I love the music in the background, it makes me all fuzzy, and wonder why they are trying to exploit my weak social conditioning...

All societies will always have people who hurt others and those people will always find a tool for the job.  In the hands of a maniac a gun will maim and kill, so will a car, an airplane, a bomb, a knife or any tool chosen for the task.

Turning a blind eye to reality will just get you blind-sided, not a desirable result.

If you think a "Gun Free Zone" sign will help, please, please, please place one in your front yard and good luck to you.

For me I'll keep carrying my weapon, I'll keep going to the range, I'll keep training with firearms and I will keep hoping that I will never need to use a weapon to end another human being's life.

Seen lots of posts about how if teachers and staff were allowed to carry guns, how if "veterans" were employed as armed guards in schools these school shootings would not happen. Instinctively to me it is the dumbest of ideas and fails to tackle root cause anyway. The pro-gun ideologues are once again calling for ordinary american citizens to arm themselves as a solution to mass shootings. If only the school principal at Sandy Hook had possessed a M-4 assault rifle she could have stopped the killer, they Claim but where is the evidence to support it. there have been 62 mass shootings in the USA over the last 30 years yet armed civilians intervening in shooting rampages are rare, in fact they are startlingly rare given just how awash the US is in guns and are successful even more rarely. 


Despite this the "arm America even more!" lobby continue to press the argument with alleged examples of successful armed interventions. The problem is, the few examples they keep using fall apart under when you scratch the surface of the facts. 

One, the Appalachian School of Law shooting in Grundy, Virginia is the one gun rights die-hards frequently credit the end of a rampage at the law school in 2002 to armed "students" who intervened. The problem is those "students" happened to be current and/or former law enforcement officers it also transpired that the killer, was out of ammunition by the time they got to him - So much for that one ! In the other five i looked at that the US gun nuts like to quote i found similar problems with their arguments. Yet in discussions with the arm your wife, arm your granny, arm your children brigade they just blithely ignore the lack of evidence for their own argument, while any effort to raise discussion of root cause is completely ignored. getting everyone else to carry a gun just in order to satisfy the gun slingers need for self-affirmation of their position is both juvenile and just plain stupid

Stop diverting some real ans sensible discussion with the red herrings of "QUICK ARM EVERYBODY" or "GUN CONTROL", the former is just the weapons makers wet-dream which will just make the 1% even richer and the boat for latter has long since sailed.

Address the two real questions:

1. American Fear 

2. Americas use of violence as the Swiss Army Knife solution to all problems. Most problems have no solutions but can be better managed with work and time.

Ugh !

Regards,

Judith.

I don't know about others. I'll let them speak for themselves. However, I think it's hard to deny that IF, in a case like Sandy Hook Elementary, a shooter was trying to kill as many people before someone stopped him, the sooner you could get someone to stop him there, the lower the body count would be. The logic of that is hard to deny. 

Also, it's easy to stand outside a culture and criticize it. How can people be starving in India when there's all this beef on the hoof all over the place?

As for The Netherlands, I think the #1 weird thing about Netherlanders is the language where their “g,” “ch,” and “r” have a nearly identical pronunciation, a harsh, guttural “kh” sound  so that the word “gracht” (canal) combines all three “kh” sounds in one word which when pronounced sounds to the English speaker's ear like “khkhakht.” This is why “Grolsch” (the beer) sounds like “Khkhols”, not “grolsh." It's no wonder there are no Dutch poets to speak of...it's impossible to turn the language of The Netherlands into something halfway euphonious. 

The point is, it's not the place of outsiders to criticize another culture.

Few Americans own guns out of fear or paranoia. They own them for the same reason they buy insurance: to be prepared. 

Years ago I knew a young man who was a Naval Police Officer. We went to a bar and found two seats at the bar. We sat down and ordered our drinks. The woman to his right noticed the pistol on his hip. "Why do you carry a gun?" she asked. He explained the nature of his job to her. "But you're off duty now, aren't you?" "Yes." "Why don't you leave your gun at home before you go out like this?" "I carry it with me all the time," he replied, adding "If a situation arose where I might need it, it won't do me much good at home on my kitchen table."

"Americas use of violence as the Swiss Army Knife solution to all problems." If you said "Black peoples' use of violence as the Swiss Army Knife solution to all problems," I think we'd all see you as racist. I won't accuse you of being racist, or nationist, or even anti-American, but I will say you make rather flip and unjustified generalizations. 

For one thing, the United States is the most charitable nation on Earth according to this study. The Netherlands, to your credit, is #6. It's puzzling that countries like Sweden, France, and Germany aren't in the Top 20, whereas countries like Malta and Turkmenistan are!

So, no, the U.S. isn't all about guns.

Whew.

According to the world giving index for previous years the US has been:
2010 tied for 5th (55%) Netherlands 7th (54%)
2011 1st (60%) Netherlands 6th (54%)
2012 6th (57%) Netherlands 7th (54%)

This is hardly a compelling argument for significant charitable superiority over time, last year was a nice blip for the US.

The observations that are being made from the Netherlands ring true for observations that Many of us have made as US citizens. What motivates that need to be prepared for many is irrational fear mongering that has been nicely cultivated in a blanket of the flag, the constitution, and freedom trampling. No true Scotsman buys a gun out of fear or paranoia.

These positions and fears have been sold like a product to the American people and the have bought the goods. US gun sales have gone up 25-30% in the last dozen years, and we have about 90 guns per 100 people. You can argue a statistic that less homes have guns per home, but that would mean individuals have more guns per person. If this were international relations it would be called arms stockpiling.

This is an emotionally charged situation. Who better than an outside observer to offer a cooler analysis. If we don't really think that outsiders can't criticize another culture, then I now expect absolute silence around here regarding Middle Eastern Muslims and Jews.
Which is this paranoia or fear-mongering? It's hard to tell sometimes.


WND Floats Armed Resistance to Obama Administration


http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/wnd-floats-armed-resistance-o...

"WND Floats Armed Resistance to Obama Administration"

I first heard about this last night at our family Christmas party. I find it rather amazing when some that could not finish HS, because of home work issues, now spends a great deal of time reading the WND annoucements/blogs. Seems like a GED might be more helpful.   

I saw one of your posts Unseen where you told someone off for going off topic, have you not just done the same with this charitable table?

I stand by my statement, american is a nation that has a problem with Fear and is violently inclined as a result. Of course it is not alone in an inclination towards violence but its sheer armed might, economic weight and somewhat dogmatic idealism do make the most dangerous.

Feel free to have a go at the Netherlands it is no problem with me but stop trying to deny what is at the heart of your society. Just because we are "not america" does not mean we do not have a valid point.

Not sure what your point was about Dutch and pronunciation, off topic again there Unseen, tell yourself off once more. It is not weird, it is different to what you know, does something a little "different" to what you know unsettle you so much you need to make that comment ? How far is that from fear I wonder LOL.

You can stand by your statement all you want. I don't experience this fear you're talking about. The United States is an easy target, but whatever nation is the most powerful and economically successful would be subject to exactly the same sort of carping. Just be glad, for now, that it's the U.S. and not China or Russia throwing its weight around.

I have seen this point being made by theists also. The US is such a moral spiritual place, why change a thing.

@ Judith, you have asked "Address the two real questions:" numbers 1 and 2.

Unfortunately neither is a question.

In rereading your post I think it is safe to say that you don't like firearms. If we look past the hyperbolic verbiage there may be a point or two that can be discussed.

The core concept in your first paragraph appears to be that an armed individual at the school will have little to no positive effect on the outcome of this type of tragedy.  For the most part I agree, depending on the circumstances.  It comes down to two main human concepts: Personal survival and Personal sacrifice and the balance between these two psychological drives differs with each individual, the potential outcome is simply incalculable.  However that doesn't mean teachers and school personal should be forced to remain unarmed, every American no matter where they work has an unalienable right to defend themselves.

School shootings are a very rare event, using your figures 62 in 30 years, currently there are approximately 125,000 schools in the US with approx. 180 schools per year.

So 30 years times 125,000 schools times 180 days equals 675,000,000 divided by 62 gives us a one in 10,877,096 chance of occurrence.

These are rough figures but you get the idea, those are long odds and another reason why I'm against adding armed guards to the schools.  The money would be better spent on free health care for the mentally ill.

As far as your second and third paragraph go, do more research, the information is available you just have to put in the time to find it.

Regarding your fourth paragraph:

This has been a sensible response, thank you.

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