...a couple staffers had been armed?

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Still trying for that "Mr. Congeniality" merit badge, I see --

You talkin' to me?

Because that's how it would go down, just like that. Police in New York injured 9 people in a shooting when a pistol was pulled on them against 1 guy who was right in front of them. That is highly trained, professional officers. 

Maybe some of the kids could have been saved, maybe even more got killed. Maybe the killer decides to wear a bombs vest or flak jacket (which he did). What about grenades, bombs? How do you know what he has? How do you even know what to look for? Maybe he has an accomplice waiting for the guard to appear. You don't rush this kind of situation because of these unknown parameters. And properly checking a large building with many rooms and places to hide will take time. When SWAT teams or hostage rescue missions take place they try to build the lay out of the building to practice any number of different situations that make the difference between everyone dying and as few as possible. And they do it in teams of four to six to cover each other.
What kind of doors are they? Do they have windows? Locks? Are they fire doors? Heavy? How do they open, in or out, how far? Are there corners either side? How do the handles work? Are they knobs that twist or levers that bend? Are there keys? To which rooms? Clockwise or counter? Do some rooms connect to other rooms? What is the separation? Bullets easily go through temp walls. Are they easily blocked? What is available to block them? Push a door when you should pull it and you have alerted the killer and boom, he could easily take more lives. Someone who hasn't had this kind of training is not likely to be able to subdue someone in protection who has lots of ammo and a lot of easily grabbed hostages. You don't just go tap tap and it's finished. You have to pump the killer until you know he is no longer a threat. During the Iranian Embassy siege, one terrorist was shot 95 times, because a couple of rounds to the chest means he can still flip a switch. Pull a pin. Again, people who do this don't go on weekend courses. They do it full time, day after day, refresher course after refresher course. How many schools in the U.S.? How much will it cost to fund all this? You okay with that tax hike?

Tell ya what, Unseen.

YOU convince the country to spend the money to do it PROPERLY -- well-trained currently-active policemen acting as security guards, *NOT* minimum-wage bus drivers looking for extra cash (and fer chrissakes, not teachers in their classrooms with handguns in their theoretically-locked desks) -- and we'll consider your idea *ALONG WITH* banning assault weapons and high-capacity clips.

You know it won't happen.  Penny pinchers will stick a gun in a medicine cabinet in the teacher's lounge and call it good.  And adding MORE guns in untrained hands, won't improve anything.  (May as well save a step and give it to the killer directly.)

Furthermore, the moment someone says "See?  Now we don't have to ban assault weapons!", the entire point is lost.

An armed society is NOT a polite society -- America is both the most armed AND the most murderous country on Earth.

Properly trained security guards are fine.  Making weapons of mass murder less available to every idiot on the street is better.

I didn't start a thread about whether an armed response to such killings would ever happen. If I had, your comment would have been more a propos. 

Arming every school would be a big national project. So would enforcing a ban on the sort of weapon used at Sandy Hook Elementary which is, contrary to what some think, not am assault weapon but a one trigger pull one shot weapon, like most pistols. It just looks nasty and can take large clips containing many bullets.

Would the Connecticut elementary school toll have been smaller if...

a couple staffers had been armed?

Your thread start looks a lot like you did, Unseen.  If that wasn't your intent, I think you might have posted a few more lines in the start, to clarify.

Ok so for guns like that regulate the clips.

The NRA press conference today was a quite perplexing to a non-gun owner, but aluminum baseball bat wielder such as myself.

It is amazing to me that people don't stop for a second and think that what they are advocating for is a police state. We agree to armed policemen in schools where the mass killings are, then we agree to armed policemen in the malls where the mass shootings are, then we agree to the armed policemen in the movie theaters where the mass killings are.

Is this the America we envision? Is this the armed tyranny that we want? Isn't this the 'Don't Tread on Me' version of America that the right to keep and bear arms was trying to avoid? Instead we are more rapidly arming the police state? So now citizens will need to ramp up their guns more to arm themselves for an even more obvious (to some anyway) presence of armed police state than I could imagined before.

That's quite a twisted path for someone to take to align themsleves with a sales lobbying group whose primary purpose is to sell as much of its product to the public as it possibly can.

What is your definition of "police state"? I always thought it was one where the powers that be kept themselves in control through jackbooted police knocking heads or dragging people to oblivion while the rest of the world slept, secret police, and constant surveilance. 

Apparently, for you, a police presence designed to protect rather than to oppress is a police state. 


I was role-playing a bit. We have a population of gun advocates that have armed themselves against the possibility of a tyrannical government imposing their will on them.

We have a population of gun advocates that think the purpose of FEMA is to establish concentration camps to inter problematic patriots, under the guise of a positive public program.

It seems logically incongruent to me that rather than even think about starting at square one in the discussion of control the preferred position is to place more armed police in a federal program, not local, not state regulated and not school district employed or organized, to promote safety, which could just as easily within that mindset to be considered to be under the guise of a positive public program.

I'm pretty sure the guns are just a deadly and the federal policemen just as easily mobilized with or without the jackboots.

Federally FUNDED program. (Never happen anyway in the current budget climate.)

We're pretty resilient to this sort of thing.

I heard two statistics today. Gun ownership has been rising steeply in the last few years. Then, separately, crime has been going down the last five years.


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