To me the world seems to have lost it's mind. Last few days have looked at pictures of gitmo bay and almost threw up. The dehumanizing of people was beyond words. History talked of hitler and auschwitz. Decades later what I saw in those photos of gitmo made me think of images of the the very humiliation that the United states once fought against. Turkey is burning because of fighting back the government turned on it's own people like a mad dog. here in america we finally start getting rights for LBGT . Along comes salvation army saying that it should be a death sentence. Killing people over religion seems to be on the rise. in india  women are burning for supposed witchcraft and girls killed  being victims of rape . The catholic church is says birth control is wrong . Nuns who argue with church are being excommunicated.  In last political race it was debated whether women had a right to their on viginas .  People are dying world over because of religion and lack of even basic medical and dental care. there is hope for this world right?

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Why are we using force for the sole purpose of avoiding bad publicity?

The conventions of war prohibit removing those captured further from their country than is dictated by military necessity. There was never an excuse to take them to Cuba. Each person there constitutes a separate war crime. Of course they are trivial in comparison to the conspiracy to war and crimes against peace. Lots of people were hanged for those crimes at Nuremberg even though they were ex post facto crimes.

If the Hague ever wants Bush and Cheney and the rest of the team I will contribute to the air fare.

RE: "I will contribute to the air fare." - I'll pay the whole damn thing out of my pocket!

Your pockets are deeper than mine but I will contribute a few bucks.

If one is kidnapped the victim has the moral right to kill those who imprison him. That is without question. The US penalties for kidnapping include life in prison and execution.

And I find it offensive that you take such a black and white view on people you know nothing about. Are there no innocent people in prisons?

I'm sure that there is a SS officer that said the exact same thing as you about my grandfather when he was a POW on his way to Auschwitz.

Really ? The detainees at Gitmo are being treated the same as the the victims at Auschwitz ? The detainees are brought for the sole purpose of extermination ? Did the victims at Auschwitz get to watch DVDs on a color flatscreen TV ? Did the victims of Auschwitz get medical care ? Did the victims of Auschwitz have have food to spare ? The only similarity between the detainees at Gitmo , and the victims at Auschwitz , are they were both held involuntarily . Do you really believe that Gitmo and Auschwitz are equal ? If you do , I would question your critical thinking skills , and your skewed attempt at moral equivalency . I am usually in agreement with you , but I think you're off base here .

Obviously Auschwitz was worse, still doesn't make Gitmo "better".

Until recent years it was a secret prison on foreign soil. It is used to detain people without any need of evidence or reason, for as long as they feel like keeping them. The CIA routinely uses "Enhanced Interrogation Techniques" on the prisoners, resulting quite often in death. The guards abuse prisoners mentally and physically.

By today's standards of Western society, in this post-WW2 world we live in, Gitmo may as well be the 21st century Auschwitz.

Just because it's not worse, doesn't make it better either.

You said that the "Islamic savages imprisoned in Gitmo are not innocents."

What about the ones who were wrongly imprisoned?

You can't possibly argue that something is good just because something worse existed before it.

I never said Gitmo was good , merely that A .) it can't be compared the nadir of human barbarism that was Auschwitz , and B.) I don't believe the detainees are harmless innocents . The religious beliefs of all the monotheisms are in opposition to a progressive , just society and culture . Islam , however , is currently alone in actively attempting the violent destruction and dismantling of western culture and civil society . Everyone deserves humane treatment , and I believe the Gitmo detainees should be tried in criminal court .

Maybe my reaction was a bit much. i can post pictures but they are extremely graphic in nature hence why originally i only posted the pdf. My hesitancy to post pictures stems from rules of nothing of graphic nature posted on think atheist. When I wrote this it seems that we as a nation have become what we used to fight against. I'm not saying they are all innocent but there are those there that are.

Just post a link, that way those who wish to look will.

angela, I'm a Korean War combat veteran and I agree in part that we as a nation have become what we used to fight against.

When I consider only the World War Two period, especially the aid we gave the defeated nations, the thought that we have become what we used to fight against saddens me greatly.

While researching America's founding and the history of Congress for a book, I learned a lot that our school histories didn't tell us.

For one instance of many, in the 1787 Constitutional Convention, several delegates that our school histories described as leaders said they wanted a nation ruled by the rich and well born (Hamilton) that would protect the opulent minority from the majority (Madison). Others supported their views. A few delegates said they feared that aristocracy or monarchy would result. The word fascism had not yet been created.

I live in a veterans retirement home and I'm one of several residents who refuse to pledge allegiance to the flag. For most of us our reason is those two words. For me it's more. When other veterans comment on my refusal, I tell them to pledge allegiance to the Constitution and then we can talk. A few conservative xians grump at me but I grump right back at them for believing the lies their leaders tell them.

A US Supreme Court ruling supports my view; in a 1940 case it held that the pledge brings children into the political culture. I might start grumping at veterans here for wanting to remain children.

How do you feel about starting a movement to replace the flag pledge with a constitution pledge?

Tom, you may recall cartoonist Walt Kelley's comic strip, "Pogo," about an cartoon opossum, living in the Okefenokee swamp, who represented Everyman  - if so, you may remember what Pogo once said to Albert Alligator:

"We have met the enemy, and it is us."


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