To me the world seems to have lost it's mind. Last few days have looked at pictures of gitmo bay and almost threw up. The dehumanizing of people was beyond words. History talked of hitler and auschwitz. Decades later what I saw in those photos of gitmo made me think of images of the the very humiliation that the United states once fought against. Turkey is burning because of fighting back the government turned on it's own people like a mad dog. here in america we finally start getting rights for LBGT . Along comes salvation army saying that it should be a death sentence. Killing people over religion seems to be on the rise. in india  women are burning for supposed witchcraft and girls killed  being victims of rape . The catholic church is says birth control is wrong . Nuns who argue with church are being excommunicated.  In last political race it was debated whether women had a right to their on viginas .  People are dying world over because of religion and lack of even basic medical and dental care. there is hope for this world right?

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My parents didn't ask my permission before they brought me into this fucked up world.

If they had asked, I would have investigated their parenting skills and declined.

How do you feel now, Tom?  It would be nice if you could find peace. 

Can't choose to move to a different planet, though. 

Really, the only difference is the size of the generational spaceship. The Earth is an enormous one and a starship would be a smaller one. (Assuming we can't just terraform Venus, put engines on it and go cruising about the galaxy)

Speaking of putting engines on planets, I've always wondered if we could one day put engines on Mars and speed up its rate of rotation - would that increase it's gravity?

Putting engines on it wouldn't help speed it up, but we could speed it up via multiple (like millions) of flybys. This would shorten its day, but its gravitational pull wouldn't alter.

If you want to increase its gravity, you'll need to add mass.

Or if you just want to increase surface gravity, compact it so it is smaller and denser.

UnOne, do you actually listen to the things you say? They would be conceived and born on the moving spacecraft. To say, "whence comes the right," differs little from me saying, what right did my parents have to bear me on Earth, when I'd really rather live on another planet? I didn't sign up for this! Stop the world, I want to get off!

The error of all these generation ship stories is that people would want to get off at the destination. The ship is home. They would be as adverse to living on a planet as we would be to living on the generation ship.

The longing for the green hills of Earth does not exist in people who have never seen them.

And there are some really good SF novels that explore that theme, Matt. There's one that pointed out that while many would not want to leave the ship, a great many would, wanting something different, something new. In that novel's universe, the ship kept going from planet to planet, generations on generations, seeding hundreds or worlds.

The difference, of course, that if they grew up on Earth, they could always choose to move to a different country.

I might add that going to the nearest star would almost inevitably be a government program, but if it's a corporate effort, it makes little difference. Since the children of the astronauts would have to finish the mission, isn't it pretty clear that they would end up being de facto slaves for a government or corporate program? Suppose, for example, the Sarah Jones, child of an astronaut couple, might rather train horses or climb mountains than spend her life assisting some government or corporation carry out its program.

How would she know what a horse or a mountain was?

Do you honestly believe that if kids can be indoctrinated by their parents to believe in an invisible magic-man, they couldn't be convinced to accept "the mission" as the most important thing they will ever do and the entire reason for their existence?

And - show of hands - how many out there are not de facto slaves, for a paycheck?

Currently the Mission to Mars is being discussed as a one-way only space flight.  There are some very practical reasons for this.


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