I tend to get annoyed with the instantaneous dismissal of creationism simply because the physical world can support itself by itself, similar arguments. Or just the general idea that theists are theists because "science can't explain this phenomenon, therefore God did it". Nobody seems to recognize that "God" is outside the box of the universe; he isn't just some finite entity made of dark matter who at random times manipulates the physical realm in ways that science can't explain... eh.. what i'm getting at is that so what if science does accurately explain event X, what if we can even use science to explain everything that happens in the entire universe!? When a creationist says that God set the world into motion, that doesn't mean that said creationist has to pretend centripetal force and inertia is made up by God-haters and it is actually the  physical hand of God spinning the earth and whirling it around the sun... that means said creationist believes that the centripetal force due to gravity is God's doing. This idea can apply to the Big Bang theory as well, even evolution for all I know. When the Bible says that God created the Earth in 6 days and I hear a counter argument that goes something like "oh well the earth was actually formed in x amount of days so explain that" I just say "the hell if I know" because I don't know! Go argue against a fundamentalist! I don't know if the Bible is speaking literally at that instance or not, if so, maybe it really was? who's to say at what point in the earth's creation did God start counting? Who's to set the precise definition of the word "day" in that verse? The point is that there are too many dang variables for anyone to outright dismiss God because of what's in the Book of Genesis, unless YOU are the one reading the Bible like a fundamentalist.

What I personally get from the Bible has absolutely nothing to do with science. You can't just compare science against God like they are two conflicting views of what happens in the universe. From a purely scientific point of view, I'm saying that maybe the deists or agnostics have it right in the sense that God may or may not intervene in the physical world and who the heck knows or even cares if He's actually moving stuff around or not. Worrying over "proving" that He does or does not exists is not the point, because science simply can't do that either way! Its just an endless cycle of opinion.

The Bible isn't intended to leave you worrying about finding tangible evidence for God. Finding God is a heart issue, not a science issue. I think that is what the Bible is all about. :)


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I think I know better than to try and spread the gospel using pascal's wager... which I agree is wrong and unjust.

Rod wrote:  excellent, Jerod! so what would be reasons for belief?
let's get down to business now. put them in inductive or deductive form.


@ Jerod - Yes, let's hear them please. I am eager to see just how seriously you have succumbed to the God virus. We want to cleanse you of your disease.

"etymologically wreckless" lol I will add this to my english vocabulary..

I think Jarod went to bed, his brain got in flames. I was hoping to hear his "philosophy" on how god lives outside of "the box" that is the universe *sigh*


@ Gabi - Now now Gabi, we want to help him. We want to "save" him. Jerod! Come back! We want to get you out of that small box before you suffocate!

The "the instantaneous dismissal of creationism" is not "simply because the physical world can support itself by itself" but because creationism simply isn't a scientific theory. It explains nothing, has no predictive power, and is not falsifiable. Therefore it is dismissable in exactly the same way as someone claiming that the flying spaghetti monster made everything is dismissable.

If you believe god is outside the "box of the universe", fine. It simply doesn't matter if she produces no observable effects. As an atheist I don't need to prove god doesn't exist, I simply don't believe in her, and as far as I can tell I don't have the capacity or need to make myself believe in a god. What follows from that for me is that every religious text is the work of humans. Therefore the existence and content of religious texts is very much academic to me, or of interest in the way that any work of literature exploring various ideas would be of interest.

I don't see belief as a choice when you're indoctrinated into that belief from an early age. Childhood belief in Santa is a good example of this. However, once you apply logic and reason to conclude that there is no evidence to believe Santa exists and subsequently stop believing in him, can you ever "choose" to believe in him again? You could only choose to go through the motions and pretend to believe, which is what many Christians would prefer atheists do.


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