I tend to get annoyed with the instantaneous dismissal of creationism simply because the physical world can support itself by itself, similar arguments. Or just the general idea that theists are theists because "science can't explain this phenomenon, therefore God did it". Nobody seems to recognize that "God" is outside the box of the universe; he isn't just some finite entity made of dark matter who at random times manipulates the physical realm in ways that science can't explain... eh.. what i'm getting at is that so what if science does accurately explain event X, what if we can even use science to explain everything that happens in the entire universe!? When a creationist says that God set the world into motion, that doesn't mean that said creationist has to pretend centripetal force and inertia is made up by God-haters and it is actually the physical hand of God spinning the earth and whirling it around the sun... that means said creationist believes that the centripetal force due to gravity is God's doing. This idea can apply to the Big Bang theory as well, even evolution for all I know. When the Bible says that God created the Earth in 6 days and I hear a counter argument that goes something like "oh well the earth was actually formed in x amount of days so explain that" I just say "the hell if I know" because I don't know! Go argue against a fundamentalist! I don't know if the Bible is speaking literally at that instance or not, if so, maybe it really was? who's to say at what point in the earth's creation did God start counting? Who's to set the precise definition of the word "day" in that verse? The point is that there are too many dang variables for anyone to outright dismiss God because of what's in the Book of Genesis, unless YOU are the one reading the Bible like a fundamentalist.
What I personally get from the Bible has absolutely nothing to do with science. You can't just compare science against God like they are two conflicting views of what happens in the universe. From a purely scientific point of view, I'm saying that maybe the deists or agnostics have it right in the sense that God may or may not intervene in the physical world and who the heck knows or even cares if He's actually moving stuff around or not. Worrying over "proving" that He does or does not exists is not the point, because science simply can't do that either way! Its just an endless cycle of opinion.
The Bible isn't intended to leave you worrying about finding tangible evidence for God. Finding God is a heart issue, not a science issue. I think that is what the Bible is all about. :)
Hmmmm, but there is a definite answer for the individuals who do decide to follow God, the hard part is trying to demonstrate that He is real to those who have not yet found Him.. and what it ultimately comes down to is living the most loving life you can and praying on a daily basis that those who have not yet found Him will, because it isn't up to the believer what another chooses to believe.
Also, what about those of us that did believe but don't anymore? Many here, myself included, did in fact believe with all our heart. Yet my personal search to know this god as best I could led me from belief, rather than reinforcing it.
James wrote: Also, what about those of us that did believe but don't anymore? Many here, myself included, did in fact believe with all our heart. Yet my personal search to know this god as best I could led me from belief, rather than reinforcing it.
@ James - Yep, me too. I believed with all my heart and boy it was devastating when I lost my faith. I think it would have been better if I had never had any in the first place.
Why does it feel like my questions are being ignored?
@ Rod - No real love. I mean sure, (hypothetical situation) Jerod would probably risk his life to save you if you were war buddies or whatever, but he probably would not hesitate to tell your children they will go to hell if they don't believe in God and had better believe him, because after all, he saved your life. Christians love to pull that kind of psychological crap on children and young people. So it's a kind of tough love. A kind of twisted love, actually, when you think about it.
Wow, now you are just getting a little ad hominem and generalizing. I have been responding to Rod's questions as well as I can. I don't want this to turn into a personal battle, I have no right to do so.
Also, I would never tell anyone that they are going to hell for not believing. Who am I to make a judgement like that!?
please stop trolling me
Jerod wrote to Rod: please stop trolling me
@ Jerod - I think you may have had better luck in not having to deal with him any longer, if you would have asked him to please stop posting on your thread since you are going to ignore him anyway; than making an assumption that he is a troll because he does not seem like one at all, to me.
I guess that's what happens when a Christian comes into an atheist site preaching while trying to sound smart, failing miserably at it, and when unable to back up their claims feel they are being "trolled"..
Maybe Jarod speaks in the same slang that does William Lane Craig..
"etymologically wreckless" lol I will add this to my english vocabulary..
I think Jarod went to bed, his brain got in flames. I was hoping to hear his "philosophy" on how god lives outside of "the box" that is the universe *sigh*
Ok, so what is this guilt to you, really? Something you feel in your heart, or a set of chemical reactions in the brain developed by million of years of evolution in order for the betterment of the species? I mean seriously now, is that really what right and wrong is to you? Or do you actually believe in a definite Right and Wrong. In which case I would ask you how can you possibly remain an atheist? How can Right and Wrong exist in a universe of time, space, matter, energy, and chance?
@ Jerod - Well let's see. Oh, I have a good example. I see someone unhappy; I feel unhappy. I then want to do something to make the person get back to happy, then I can be back to happy too. It really is that simple.
@Flower: Yes, so often altruism can be so very selfish! You help them to make yourself feel better, right?
Dustin wrote to Flower: Yes, so often altruism can be so very selfish! You help them to make yourself feel better, right?
@ Dustin - LOL ! It really is not rocket science.