Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Misty: Baytheist Living! on January 27, 2009 at 3:57am

Things that offend me about religion (of most types)
1) I can be sold into slavery by my father as a child.
2) My husband has a right to beat me.
3) It is perfectly acceptable to kill me in the name of family honor.
4) I can only go to heaven via my husband or closest male relative.
5) I should be demure, obedient, unquestioning, and perfectly agreeable at all times.
6) My fashion sense relies on what part of my head or body is covered.
7) I'm worthless if I can't reproduce.
8) I should have no say in matters of government, church decree and educated subjects.
9) The final word of family matters is up to my husband.

These are just the things listed in various religious texts. I mean, it gets worse as each religion weighs in and creates even more dogmatic "law" Working outside the home, gender biased execution for adultery or rape and even education are all prominent through human interpretation, not just the black and white words.

But remember.. they are all religions of love and forgiveness, right?

Permalink Reply by M on March 26, 2010 at 2:59pm

I don't think I could have said it better than this. Nice!

The whole story of Adam and Eve is really just classic, isn't it? We came from a man (the first and last time that one ever happened), and then we are to blame for the downfall of our species in general and are punished with painful childbirth (as opposed to just removing ribs from random men in the future?). Love it.

Permalink Reply by Pam on January 27, 2009 at 10:01am

I think this will be a great discussion, and I definitely see why gender discrimination can turn women away from Christianity (and most other religions for that matter).

But, personally, my gender has never played a role in my skepticism, so I don't think it is an important factor when discussing my non-belief. I wasn't even aware of all the crazy passages about women when I began questioning the Bible, religion, and god.

I think most atheists, male and female, use the same logic, science, rhetoric, philosophy, etc. to argue our position. I don't see how being a woman changes anything about someone's atheism, but I'll be happy for one of you to show me how it might. :-)

Permalink Reply by Misty: Baytheist Living! on January 27, 2009 at 8:58pm

Exactly, Pam.
The horrible gender bias didn't lead me here. If I were "faithful" then I would either accept these things or rationalize them away like all religious women must.
It was a lack of belief and the reality of science that made me atheist, not the little facts of discrimination and cruelty.

Permalink Reply by Kairan Nierde on November 15, 2011 at 4:39am

Misogyny and other hierarchal valuations of human life consistently bothered me over my years as a Christian.  It seemed completely illogical to treat people as less than another type of person and completely at odds to any acceptable ethical code.  Awareness of these inconsistencies certainly kept my skepticism of authority and tradition at a healthy level, which contributed to my deconversion later on in life.  

Permalink Reply by Laura on January 27, 2009 at 9:48pm

I wouldn't say that a gender bias led me to atheism, but I think it certainly is something which makes atheism much better for women than religion overall. It sickens me to see these old white men preachers step up in the national spotlight and make claims that women need to be subordinate to their husbands, need to be ready for the sexually 24/7, whether she wants it or not. Any sort of institution which condones rape isn't getting my vote =\.

Permalink Reply by Laura on January 27, 2009 at 10:51pm

They also seem to think that men can't be feminists, which I will never understand...

Permalink Reply by Veronica A. H. on October 26, 2011 at 5:04pm

Evangelical churches certainly have a discriminatory view of women. Unfortunately many of the women seem to agree with this view. I have seen women preachers promote this view as the only way to be a woman of god. It is very sad.

Back in the days I worked on a couple of Hillsong church's women conferences where some 5000 women attended. A lot of girly talk, but also a lot of unhealthy teaching of the sort I mentioned.

Permalink Reply by Kevin on January 27, 2009 at 10:40pm

One of the coolest feelings I had when I realized I'd finally made my way to full-blown atheism was the freedom it gave me to be who I really am, make my own goals, and remove my guilt of unworthiness (from sin, God's perfection, etc). I can imagine that if I were a woman with my same upbringing, I would have felt all of that but one large part of my psyche would definitely rage back against the sexism and general idea of female submission inherent in the Pentecostal church. Just this last May, I went to one of my friend's weddings (very Christian wedding, btw) and the bride actually quoted scripture to say that she would submit to him and his direction over their household as part of her vows. I was a groomsman so I couldn't do a facepalm up on the steps, but the culture of women taking the submissive back seat is just completely ridiculous.

Permalink Reply by Laura on January 27, 2009 at 10:50pm

You're completely right, especially about the wedding thing. So many of wedding "traditions" stem from these religiously-based notions of male ownership over women. The father giving away the bride was a very literal transition of the control of the woman from father to husband. A bride wears a white gown and a veil to cover her face, because she is supposed to be a "blushing" bride thinking about the upcoming wedding night, while the groom has been free to screw every harlot in town - and will keep this freedom after marriage as well. And then there's the changing of the names, so that the bride literally takes on the personality of her husband, agreeing to be a port of him and submit to his will. It's all very sickening, but I don't know how more; because people do these things without knowing the history behind them, or because they do know the history?

Permalink Reply by mrs kelligurl on May 17, 2009 at 1:00pm

My husband and I got married 23 Apr 2008. I chose to wear a wedding dress (white and blk) and the veil; however, I refused to have the veil over my face (something my matron-of-honor attempted to fight me on)....and I walked myself down the isle. I don't believe I belong to anyone to give away! Now, one of my husbands friends ( a Ex Navy Chaplain--kicked out on adultery charges) conducted the ceremony. I didn't know him very well, but it is quite well known that I'm no friend of religion, and certainly made it clear that I wanted no mention of 'god' (any of them), obey, submit, etc in our vows. Well, trying to be funny (I suppose) he did mention the G-word!! Luckily I have a strong sense of humor--along with my guests; I simply looked at him--coughed & ahemmed-- and said what he said minus the g-word or reference to that. I looked at my 'audience' and saw the laughs and my Aunt & Uncle nodded their heads as if applauding me quitely. After the ceremony he did come up to me and apologized profusely, as that was just part of his normal speech. I think if I took things more seriously or personally I would have stormed out crying, but I don't and it's ended up being one of those memories EVERYONE that was there seems to reflect on.

Permalink Reply by Taryn RaiiLyn Derner on December 12, 2011 at 6:49pm

That anecdote makes we want to vomit. "Submit" seriously? The only time that word is appropriate is during consensual s&m haha.
I actually told my family one day when I get married, I want the person marrying me to say
"I now pronounce you husband and wife. You may now kiss each other." Solely on the fact that, no one will ever posses me.

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