Why sin does not exist--according to what most Christians believe.

In relation to my previous discussion on ethics, I am interested in others views on "sin."

Now, for a Christian that believes Jesus dies to save them from their sins, and believe Paul when he said the laws no long apply--this means technically, there is no such thing as sin.  You see, if there are no laws, then there is nothing to break--hence no such thing as sin.

Christian will claim they follow the "Ten Commandments"--but those were part and parcel of the laws--they were not separated from any of the other OT laws--so they too no longer apply.  The distinctions between civil, moral and ceremonial laws are arbitrary--imposed on the text from outside of the text.  Men separated them for their own convenience.  Oh, and just for amusements sake, the real ten commandments that are said to be in the ark of the covenant are in Exodus 34, and end with "Don't cook your goats in mother's milk"--lol.  Yes, it's true!  I find some of the best comedies and tragedies within the pages of that book!..:)

If Christians claim all they must do is love Jesus and love their neighbors as themselves, they are wrong about that too.  You see, Jesus did not say the laws no longer apply--Paul did!  So really, Christians who claim the laws no longer apply are followers of Paul--not Jesus.  Jesus said to follow ALL the laws and ALL the prophets until heaven and earth disappear.  (Matt 5:17-20)

So, if Christians believe the OT laws no longer apply, they are followers of Paul, and there is no "sin," as sin is defined as a transgression against god's laws.  If Christians do follow the OT laws, then they are followers of Jesus, and can commit sin.

Personally, I believe that if you teach someone they are good and worthy, and if they make a mistake they must take responsibility for their actions, you will have many more people doing things that are good and worthy, as opposed to the "born sinners' who are taught they cannot help but to "sin" as no one is "good"

So what do you think a Christian means by "sin"?

Tags: Christianity, Jesus, Old, Paul, Testament, law, sin

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Anything you're doing that they do not approve of.

Lust, Greed, Sloth, Pride, Wrath, Envy, Gluttony, Masturbation, Homosexuality, Atheism

Those are the 10 deadly sins!  All created by men, and some of which are not vices at all.  An example of which would be "pride." 

I agree with Aristotle as to the definition of pride. According to Aristotle, pride is a virtue, and is the mean between humbleness and arrogance. Pride is having the proper amount of self respect.  Humbleness is defined as:

1. Marked by meekness or modesty in behavior, attitude, or spirit; not arrogant or prideful.
2. Showing deferential or submissive respect: a humble apology.

3. Low in rank, quality, or station; unpretentious or lowly:

Definition 3 goes along with the teaching that Christians are dirty filthy sinners," and it follows that those that are taught they are "lowly dirty filthy sinners" will have more of a tendency to exhibit the vices mentioned above, leading to "moral laxity."  However, when one has the proper amount of self respect, i.e, "pride," they are more likely to exhibit the other virtues, for as not to do so would be to disrespect themselves as well as disrespect others.

Humbleness is only a "virtue" to those who use it to manipulate the "sheeple."

But as I already mentioned, according to Paul, there is no such thing as sin, if a sin is defined as a transgression against god's laws--as there are no laws!  Silly Christians....;)

Anything that makes us happy here :)

My interpretations of the things attributed to Jesus that you are talking about was that the "love thy neighbor as thyself" was supposedly his summation of all that the old Law basically boiled down to.  That's because (if I recall correctly) some "establishment" rabbi trying to trip him up had asked him to sum up the Law.  I was just about to say that I'd be damned (ahem) if I could see how "thou shalt not boil a kid in its mother's milk" could possibly have any relation to that.... then I realized you'd quoted the very same rule.  I believe THAT set of ten commandments was replacement for the more famous ten after Moses threw his hissy fit.

The "goats milk" commandment is part of the final commandments in Exodus 34. (I wonder why we never see it on court room walls though..lol)  The original commandments that Moses broke  in Exodus 20 also contain this commandment--but these commandments are not specifically called the "Ten Commandments" until Exodus 34.  Moses broke the originals in Exodus 32, and trudges back up the mountain for a new copy in Exodus 34.  These are the ones said to be in the ark of the covenant.  Rather hilarious ...:)

Love they neighbor as thyself--yes, how does "boiling goats" fit into that?  Or, on the other hand, if one happens to be a masochist, and loves himself by whipping himself daily--does that mean he should also whip his neighbor too?  How ridiculous.

But that is not really what Jesus meant.  He told them to love god and love their neighbors as themselves. ( Matt. 22:35-40)  All the laws "hang" on these two.  This does not mean the other laws do not apply, but means that if you do not love god, and do not love your neighbor then you cannot follow god's laws.  One follows the other, or "hangs" on it. 

My very good friend is Jewish, and evidently the modern day interpretation of the goat/milk decree is now evidenced by the rejection of meat with cheese on.  Consequently, as the cat meme goes, "I can not haz cheeseburger". 

Seriously, she cannot eat a cheeseburger.  Or a lasagne.  Or put Parmesan on her spaghetti Bolognese.  Or have a meat feast pizza.  Who knew Moses was going to so interfere with modern day fast food?

This does not mean the other laws do not apply...

Indeed, Jesus makes it quite clear all of the Old Testament laws will stand to the last letter until the end of heaven and earth. Watch out, Red Lobster!

- - -

Mathew 5:17-19

Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Leviticus 11:9-12

These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat. And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you: They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination. Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.

I will say this: some Christians will claim that Jesus's crucifixion was "the end" or whatever. When he said "it is finished!" I really don't get why he'd bother advising people about how to act for the next few years/months/weeks before his death and resurrection, but... apparently all the laws applied up *until* he died and rose again.

O_o

...but that wouldn't explain why they still follow some of the laws. You know. The convenient ones.

Here is my personal favorite Biblical passage about sin. Jesus looks up and finds everyone has left: so nobody is there to witness the event and relate it in the third person. Ergo somebody made it up.

- - -

John 8:1-11

Jesus went unto the mount of Olives. And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them. And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou. This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Yes, those are some of my favorite passages too.  Who exactly was there to witness that event?  Ahhh--those same people that were there to "witness" any so-called "event" in the gospels.  Nobody--since they were all written a generation or two after he supposedly died by authors unknown.  I totally agree--someone made it all up! 

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