I know they can't do much but they are nnot doctors and they are delusionned by their own belief . Still he baffled me they never answer the riddle of the amputed?

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It is unfair to assume that Steve Fraser is lying.

It's completely fair that Steve should produce evidence to substantiate his claims and perfectly reasonable to dismiss them as false when he reacts with outrage and intellectual dishonesty that we require this.

Steve,

When you performed these healings/energy transfers did you happen to have any witnesses exclusive of the person you were administering? There are many on this planet who believe in the so called universal energy referred to as chi and perhaps you have discovered a means to channel this chi from your body to another. That would be a fascinating revelation for sure, and one that I personally would have to rank with someone having the mental ability to move objects across a table from a distance. But on this forum you have already come to realize that we place the onus of producing verifiable evidence on the person making the claim. That is the expectation and it is a reasonable one.

As we develop as a species and, maybe in another 100,000 years, our cranial development will reach a point where we have mastered mind over matter to the extent that we can channel energy fields to do the sorts of things you lay claim to. But this bunch is ever the skeptic, and rightfully so, and we demand supporting evidence of your sensational claims. Even playing devil's advocate has it's risks.

Steve, I have so much energy for debating so if you have expelled your energy reserves already I am willing to give some of mine.  I will try to send it in wave format.

.wav format is uncompressed, it takes a huge file just to contain a small amount of music psychic chi energy. You should send it in an .mp3, or since that's a proprietary format, you could mojo up a healing .ogg if you really want to be a good freethinker.

Well, note the question, and where this discussion is now. My answer: "Been there, done that, moved on". People asked for more details, I spent some time providing them. 

Interestingly, you're right about the burden of proof, except for one thing. I don't owe it to you. If anything, I owe it to the scientific community for peer review. 

It's an opinion answer, evolved in to a (true) story, calm the fuck down, I'm not applying for a Nobel prize here. I get it is difficult to believe I don't care what you think, but let me show you. I've stopped following this thread, and will no longer post on it. Anyone who wishes to continue discussing without berating, or thinking we're working for a Nobel prize, is free to PM me.

You went onto an online community specifically for unbelievers, rationalists, and skeptics. You then proceeded to make a rather extraordinary claim which you had no evidence or scientific documentation to back up. Then you seemed confused and angered that people here would ignore your claim or ask you to back it up with evidence. I'm confused as to why you're confused.

And incidentally, I read through the entire comment thread. I didn't really see you giving many details, all I saw was you re-asserting that it was real, that you can't do it anymore, and that there are no publicly available scientific papers on you, only confidential medical records. You never clarified what kind of illnesses you were able to cure, or what kind of "controlled conditions" you did your work in, to ensure no false positives. You never really gave a good explanation of how you "lost" your powers.

He's confused, I assume, because he has never spent much time outside of his circle of evangelical family/friends where the very idea of questioning a faith based claim is absolutely taboo.  He cannot understand this behavior and thinks it rude.

Well, note the question, and where this discussion is now. My answer: "Been there, done that, moved on". People asked for more details, I spent some time providing them.

No, people asked you to provide evidence. You spent your time providing jack squat.

Interestingly, you're right about the burden of proof, except for one thing. I don't owe it to you. If anything, I owe it to the scientific community for peer review.

Aw, come on Steve. Show us the "PLENTY of examples available world wide [of which s]ome are indeed published (to my knowledge)". I mean, that should be easy for an expert like you, since you were chiding us, mere laymen, for not bothering to "gather evidence on current events" and for "ignoring all available data".

After all, the evidence is plentiful, readily available around the world, and in some cases already published. You have evidence and knowledge at hand already.

Surely, you wouldn't lie about a thing like that!

It's an opinion answer, evolved in to a (true) story, calm the fuck down, I'm not applying for a Nobel prize here.

Oh, wait. Now I understand. Faith healing is an opinion. So who needs evidence for that? Let's all calm the FUCK down everyone.

I get it is difficult to believe I don't care what you think, but let me show you. I've stopped following this thread, and will no longer post on it. Anyone who wishes to continue discussing without berating, or thinking we're working for a Nobel prize, is free to PM me.

I don't care, but damn it I'll show you! I'll show all of you!!! Um, one at a time, in private messages, where nobody else can see.

Thus, the crackpot withdraws in shame and humiliation, as he should. There's nothing to see here.

That was anticlimactic 

It's an opinion answer, evolved in to a (true) story, calm the fuck down, I'm not applying for a Nobel prize here.

And nobody here was offering you the Nobel prize. What were you applying for? Going back and reading your original posts, it looks like your intention was to play "devil's advocate" and offer us the chance to reconsider something we had previously brushed off. You asked us to have open minds, and said you knew from personal experience which proves faith healing.

To get what you asked for—open minds and us listening to you—you would need to provide evidence. Records. Scientific studies. Something other than just you saying, essentially, "I saw it happen, it's totally real." It is not unreasonable to expect that level of documentation in order to win our respect.

If you have previously been in places where what you just said would have counted as proof, I can only assume you've spent all your time amongst true believers and never interacted with those who disagree with you.

The bigger question is if you really can do the things you say you do, why aren't you applying for the Nobel prize? You, or someone else like you, should win it. You would be proof that a form of energy exists which physicists know nothing about. You would add something entirely new to the medical world. You would probably do a lot of people all throughout the world a great deal of good, particularly if faith-healing practitioners could be trained in Africa or other places where conventional medicine is expensive and difficult to get.

And nobody here was offering you the Nobel prize.

Do they even have a Nobel prize for quackery?

Steve – we are a scientific community too. We will be able to work our way through any evidence you have. We are, btw, calm about this. We are used to hearing claims without evidence from people that think their claim is actually evidence. You have mentioned some vague details but produced nothing of substance. So far what you think you have shown does not even reach first grade in junior school.  

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