Why Not Deism?

I have been challenged and have challenged myself why I am not a Diest and the only reason why I am not at the moment is because I do not like to make quick decsions, perhaps the God of the Bible is the actual God? but perhaps He isnt? So at the moment I am inbetween; both a Deist and some sought of Theist.

My question for you guys is; why not Deism?

Many of you guys used to be Christians/Muslims or just plain religious and your belief that God does not communicate with us or contradictions in the Bible does not mean there is not a God.

However, with society most people are either the two extremes and this can be seen with atheism and theism.

So why Atheism? Is it just an emotional reaction to seeing contradictions in the Bible and other religions and claiming there is no God or having a belief that there isnt one? And why not Deism?

Thanks.

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Permalink Reply by Dustin on January 11, 2011 at 8:36pm

Actually, you are clearly an Atheist as you are not making the positive assertion that a God exists. You are not certain that a Theistic god exists , so you are in fact an Atheist.

Embrace Atheism for the sweet nectar that it is. You can go back to being a Theist when you are able to rationalize the inconsistencies between the bible and reality. : P

As for 'why not Deism'. Why should we believe in something that has absolutely no justification or evidence / proof for it's existence? Do you believe in invisible pink unicorns? Ghosts? Fairies? Ewoks? The boogyman? Loch ness monster?

Give us a few reasons and arguments to believe in a Deist god, and We may be inclined to do so.

You seem to be suggesting that belief in a God is a default position. How is this possible? Babies are born Atheists.

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Permalink Reply by Doug Reardon on January 11, 2011 at 9:41pm

For me, almost any definition of god is simply illogical, irrational, unreasonable, and impossible. There is absolutely no credible evidence for the supernatural.

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Permalink Reply by Cathy Cooper on January 11, 2011 at 10:40pm

After studying all the various religions, I concluded that the possibility of any god or goddess, let alone the christian god is so minute it isn't worth considering. The christian bible is full of contradictions, interpolations, and plagiarized myths--it has little if any truth in it.

Which god or goddess, out of the tens of thousands of gods and goddesses that mankind has created could be real?--none in my opinion.

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Permalink Reply by Kraig Kolkowski on March 21, 2011 at 10:08pm

Even though I have never seen any evidence of a god, I can not rule out the possibility of a god existing. As the intelligent person that I have confidence that you are, please keep to the facts because I doubt that you have truly studied "all the various religions" because the various religions are innumerable.

As Atheists we have to have a heightened sense of scientific reasoning, and I think part of that reasoning, I believe, is keeping an open mind.
Of course, if an all powerful and all seeing god DOES exist... then we do not have free will but instead all of our actions were determined before we were even created. BUT, this is still a possibility.

If you get to debating with a really good theist, they will attack your "certainty" and turn the debate into a discussion about why you are so biased against the concept/possibility of a god.

just my 2 cents,

-Kraig

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Permalink Reply by T A A on March 22, 2011 at 3:42am

I am certain of something until I see evidence to the contrary, I'm even sometimes certain of scientific positions which do have detractors, as I'm certain homeopathy has no effect beyond placebo effect, so given the absolute and overwhelming lack of evidence after thousands of years of searching... I have no doubt on the "god" matter. There are many things in society which I do have doubts about, questions where the weight of evidence is shared by diverging arguments, deities are not among these.

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Permalink Reply by Michael Sizer-Watt on January 12, 2011 at 12:28am

Because the inability to prove nor disprove something does not make it a 50/50 possibility. I can't know for sure that Japan exists because I've never been there. But the evidence is overwhelming in the form of history books, films, movies, immigrants and so on. Thus, my belief that Japan exists is rational and highly reasonable (and almost surely correct). The evidence for supernatural beings is non-existent, just as it is for UFOs and Yeti. Hence, the non existence of gods, just like the existence of Japan, are almost surely true. Somehow even theists who recognize the logic are still immuned to it by their stubborn emotions. That's a mark of immaturity IMO.

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Permalink Reply by T A A on January 18, 2011 at 6:44am

I say the mere fact that you state that Japan existing is based on rational and reason, it excludes, by definition, "belief" and becomes knowledge, with a very high degree of certainty. I do not believe Japan exists, I know Japan exists, since there is ample evidence, and it is overwhelmingly un-opposed.

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Permalink Reply by Cecilia on January 18, 2011 at 8:03am

I think putting it in numerical terms is helpful. Like you I have never been to Japan. But I have seen photographs of Japan, located it on maps and globes, met people from Japan, watched Kirosawa films, read Murakami, eaten sushi, know people who have visited Japan, etc., etc, etc. So, based on all this evidence is it reasonable and rational for me to say I know that Japan exists? Do I know with 100% confidence? Perhaps not, maybe I ought to take into account the possibility that Japan is just one huge, complicated piece of conceptual art conceived by an unknown but brilliant artist! Okay, so, I will say with 99.7865243% confidence that Japan exists. Even with that slightly less than 100% confidence I am quite comfortable saying that I know Japan exists. No court of law would convict me of perjury if I took the witness stand and said: "I know Japan exists." No reasonable/rationale person would call me out for lying if I said I know Japan exists based on my 99.7865243% confidence that Japan exists!

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Permalink Reply by Cecilia on January 18, 2011 at 9:52am

Yes, absolutely, individuals treat and grapple with evidence differently. And individuals define evidence differently. Indeed, the dictionary definition of evidence("that which tends to prove or disprove something; grounds for belief; proof") leaves a lot of room for people to interpret what evidence is sufficient. And that is one of the problems when theists and atheists debate "evidence for god." For theists, feelings, testimonies, words/stories in a book and, even, ignorance ("god of the gaps") all provide "evidence" for god. Now, of course, none of these things would hold up in a court of law (at least not a secular court of law) if offered to prove something. Atheists require evidence that is similar to that which would hold up in a court of law (I use the legal analogy often because I am a former lawyer, sorry). So, there is a complete disconnect. I remember being on a thread at John Loftus' place with a theist and I offered something (forget what) and he, in turn, offered the story of Balaam's donkey as proof of his proposition!! Seriously, major disconnect....

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Permalink Reply by T A A on January 18, 2011 at 8:29am

Indeed, the only argument that would sway me from "I know" to "I believe" was if the evidence leaned in one direction, but could be considered short of 'overwhelming'.

Such as the statement: "Pesticides demonstrated to cause leukemia in larger numbers of infants living next to golf courses". In this instance, the evidence clearly leans towards a causal link between pesticides and leukemia, but the evidence may not be considered 'overwhelming' as there are also studies which fail to demonstrate a significant link. So in this instance I can say I believe (or I trust) that the evidence points toward causation, but there is wiggle room, room for doubters.

Quite a different statistical context from the existence of Japan. :)

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Permalink Reply by Cecilia on January 18, 2011 at 9:58am

Very good point. But I think that one of the problems is that in every day speech we often tend to use "believe" and "know" interchangeably. So it gets confusing. Saying I believe with 99.99999% confidence or saying I know with 99.999999% confidence that "x" is true or "y" is not true are really sort of saying the same thing. It is just that we usually do not assign a numerical value to our degree of certainty or uncertainty but nonetheless it is in the back of our mind mental calculations.