I use to be a full on christian(see my blog ect for more background) I just wanted to type down the reasons in my head that made me deconvert and see what made others do it too!?

For me it was not the whole Creation Vs Evolution as I was one of those Christians who believed in evolution ect. 

So what did open my eyes to the truth?

The main thing for me was the logic of god and how its just doesn't stack up. And if there was a god it certainly wasn't one i would want to follow... So my following points are all on the assumption that as the bible says god is all knowing, loving and powerful. so why this all powerful, knowing and loving god:

  1. Create a world full of sickness and disease and pain. my old christian response was because we separated from god BUT god would have known we would reject him thus god knowingly created all that is bad in this world. An all powerful and all loving god would not do this. 
  2. ~It says god created each and everyone of us and has plans for our lives. Now if we reject god we go to hell for eternity. So why would god create you knowing that your going to reject him. He is essentially making you just to go to hell.. would a loving god do this?

Those are just two quick examples out of many more.

Secondly was the bible. Even when i did not take the bible literally e.g adam and eve ect.. there are certain contradictions and points that simply dont work. Remembering that gods word was the same 'then, today and forever more' 

  1. if gods word never changes why is he so different from the Old and new testament it just makes no sense unless god is bi polar or something!?
  2. why does god order murders for working on the sabbath (exodus. 35:2), kill your teenagers if they are disobedient (Deuteronomy21:18-21). Girls who are not virgins when they marry(Deuteronomy 22:12-21) endorse slavery and the beating of them(Exodus 21:20-21) yet in the new testament jesus is the total opposite e.g stopping the stoning of the lady.
  3. Twice in the bible God shows himself. e.g to thomas and peter. why no one since? why should they get the evidence they wanted to save them but god chooses no one else to since then!?
  4. Why are amputees never healed!?

again just a few quick ones from long list! I wish not to bore you! So what made you guys stop believing?

Kind Regards!

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Exactly! It's amazing how as soon as you come out of the 'Christian bubble' you realise how stupid and crazy it all is. Scary that I use to believe it and all my friends and family still do!

That's a shallow, sophomoric rendering.  Try reading Whitehead, or even an ancient writer like Boethius. 

You're tripping over your versions of the definitions of two human words in translation, without thinking very deeply.  The world is a more complex place than simplistic definitions allow for. 

Listening to Christopher Hitchens is what finally broke my quasi-somewhat deistic-somewhat spiritually vague-woowoo'esque Chopra - Conscious of all being - personal beliefs.

My denial of Christianity specifically is a long story, but I have personal testimony that proves it's all a lie.  I dropped my knees and begged and pleaded for Jesus Christ to enter into my heart, to fill me with the Holy Spirit, to wrap me in a blanket of love.  This was during the most painful time of my life where I was having uncontrollable convulsions while thinking of all the terrible things that have happened to me as a child.  

Not a light, not a breathe, not a whisper.  Not a token of anything, not a sparkle, not a ray of sunshine through the clouds.  No warmth overcame me.  No feeling of tranquility, no feeling of anything even remotely associated to even the most vague descriptions of what Christians describe I should have felt. 

I felt cold, empty, broken, in pain.  Just as much as I felt before I fell to my knees. 

Jesus did not come to my aid.  

Therefore, the bible is a lie.  Christianity is a lie.  I have personal testimony of this fact. 

Only later in life was I able to argue it's untruths in a more logical and rational sense.  

And Hitchens allowed me to see that a world without an afterlife and magic is actually more beautiful than a world with.

I'm going to have to give this hitches a guys a listen by the sounds of it! Thanks for your reply!

If you don't believe the key parts of the bible why believe any of it?

Right on. So many Christians pick and choose which bits to believe. 

Hello Savannah,

It was pretty difficult to read through a solid block of text like that, but I, your Emperor, have managed to best the formatting beast!
The battle was epic, but the outcome, inevitable.

(Artist's Representation)

A lot of what you have written there you seem to have already figured out as being nonsense, bravo. It takes a lot of courage to question, especially when it will go against what your parents believe and have taught you.

From reading your post, the one thing you seem to still stumble on is:

Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it's not real. That is basically the phrase that has kept me believing.

Take no offense at anything I say that may sound like I am talking down to you or anything, I intend nothing of the sort with what I am going to say. I just want to point out to you how absurd that line of reasoning is.

What you are suggesting is that absence of evidence does not equal evidence of absence. And I agree! But absence of evidence also does not equal evidence for existence.

By the reasoning that keeps you believing, what is there to stop you from believing in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, the Invisible Pink Unicorn, or any of the other 2000+ gods? Their claims to existence are just as valid.

I will leave you with this to think on.

Good luck on your quest, and you will find a good community here. 

I suggest starting a thread of your own to get more people involved.

There are so many "Gods" out there. Which one is the true God? Dunno really or even it there really is a God at all. But to be honest I would choose number 3. 

That is an honest answer that is seldom heard from someone who is struggling with their belief. Stick to that honesty.

I have read so many different Bibles

Here is another one. Broken up into neat categories, saves you slugging through the boring bits.

There are so many "Gods" out there. Which one is the true God?

So many gods, or so many human theories about God?  We've had lots of theories about other things, too.  Government.  Economics.  Science.

The three choices are arbitrary.  There are lots of other choices.  "We don't know yet".  "Some combination of the above."  "Something completely different but which has aspects of several of these things."  etc.

The Bible is a sort of history of how people's ideas of God changed over time, and grew deeper.   How ancient nomads' views developed , and in doing so became more universal.

I think we should all stop eating fast food. does that mean hundreds of years from now my quote will be in some book that is supposed to teach people how to live?

Maybe, if lots of other people find it helpful and meaningful for the long term. 

The music that we preserve, the works of literature we preserve, the ideas that we teach others are the ones that we as humans feel are the most useful, the most helpful, the most worth repeating.   There were lots of plays in the time of Shakespeare, but we chose to preserve those that spoke most effectively to the most people.

Similarly, there were lots and lots of oral history and later written narratives of early peoples as well.  We chose to preserve a small set of those in the Bible, and pass those along because they seemed most valuable.  Or, perhaps, those societies that chose to adopt a cultural tradition reflected by the biblical writings were more successful than other societies, and therefore the Bible was preserved and spread while other works were not.

Zeus, Hera, Poseidon, and other high-drama anthropomorphic deities are failed ideas.  The societies failed, and the ideas were not successful enough to be preserved as social guidance.  Much like we no longer talk about phlogiston but instead talk about laws of thermodynamics and conservation of energy, unsuccessful ideas (or ideas held by unsuccessful societies) are left behind.  We think conservation of energy is "real" while phlogiston is not because we as people have found conservation of energy to be more useful, over time, for more cases and more people.  So we preserve it by Telling our children and Teaching them how they should think about energy.  

Except for a few whacky people, we aren't upset that science has gotten things wrong in the past.  We don't argue "Science as in Aristotle, or Newton, or Einstein?  Which science is the real Science? Of course it will be YOUR science..."

Preserving our best and most successful ideas in writing, and teaching them to our children is all very human.  So is getting things wrong.   But just because it's very human doesn't mean that there isn't an underlying truth that we humans are trying to get at.  In fact, we claim that the success of the ideas means that there's an underlying truth.

" If I don't believe the Bible do I not believe in God?"

This just means you don't believe in the biblical god, Yahweh/Jesus.  

It's perfectly ok to think Jesus was a great moral teacher, if you like things he's said.  But it seems you are at least knowledgeable of the atrocities that were commanded by god, Yahweh, in the Old Testament.  

Also those peculiar passages in the New Testament that mention how women shouldn't speak in church and should obey their husbands at all costs.  

You may certainly believe in a non-biblical god, but I will bet you that sooner than later you'll give that up too.  

I would encourage you to create a new topic about what you actually believe and asks us atheists to pose questions, critique your understanding, if you would be interested in that.  May give you a better perception of what you believe and why you believe it.

I used to try justify the questionable aspects of the Bible to myself. The Bible, after all, is a book that has been passed down for centuries by man, translated and retranslated by man, edited by man, even copied and recopied by hand until the creation of the printing press. Surely, it was only logical that in all that tinkering a bevy of manmade errors must have been introduced over the years.

I reckoned to myself that any morally dubious or blatantly contradictory passages could potentially be explained away as mistakes, mistranslations, or covert editorializing by the flawed human beings who had passed these stories down through the years. But, I was eventually struck by the nagging feeling that I was really just making excuses.

What ultimately did religion in for me, though, was a much more basic question of logic. I had no more evidence to support my idea of God than did the Hindus or the Shintoists or the ancient Greeks, Egyptians, or Norsemen. I was unable to disprove any other religion any more than I could disprove my own.

I realized that, from a scientific perspective, it isn't enough that anything be nondisprovable. It isn't enough to have a theory passed down over the years. A scientist has to show evidence. Scientifically, one has to demonstrate that there exists some damn good, compelling reason to believe in something before one can expect others to support the idea. Einstein had to demonstrate mathematically that his theory of relativity was capable of accurately describing the ways in which the universe seemed to work. Darwin needed fossil records and biological observations. Without such evidence, there would be no good reason for anyone to buy into his theory of natural selection.

Religion didn't have any of that.

Still, I resisted the pull of atheism for a while. Subconsciously, I could see what directions my thoughts were heading in, but I was so unnerved by the thougt of losing my faith that I basically just stopped thinking about religion altogether.

After a couple of years of avoiding the topic, I was finally able to admit to myself that I was, indeed, an atheist.

It's a scary thing to lose the basic building blocks that create the very foundations for one's view of the universe, but I was ultimately able to replace those blocks with a sturdier foundation of science, logic, and basic human decency. This new foundation is more satisfying, more rewarding, and above all, more rational than a bunch of stories handed down from people in the Bronze Age.


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