I use to be a full on christian(see my blog ect for more background) I just wanted to type down the reasons in my head that made me deconvert and see what made others do it too!?

For me it was not the whole Creation Vs Evolution as I was one of those Christians who believed in evolution ect. 

So what did open my eyes to the truth?

The main thing for me was the logic of god and how its just doesn't stack up. And if there was a god it certainly wasn't one i would want to follow... So my following points are all on the assumption that as the bible says god is all knowing, loving and powerful. so why this all powerful, knowing and loving god:

  1. Create a world full of sickness and disease and pain. my old christian response was because we separated from god BUT god would have known we would reject him thus god knowingly created all that is bad in this world. An all powerful and all loving god would not do this. 
  2. ~It says god created each and everyone of us and has plans for our lives. Now if we reject god we go to hell for eternity. So why would god create you knowing that your going to reject him. He is essentially making you just to go to hell.. would a loving god do this?

Those are just two quick examples out of many more.

Secondly was the bible. Even when i did not take the bible literally e.g adam and eve ect.. there are certain contradictions and points that simply dont work. Remembering that gods word was the same 'then, today and forever more' 

  1. if gods word never changes why is he so different from the Old and new testament it just makes no sense unless god is bi polar or something!?
  2. why does god order murders for working on the sabbath (exodus. 35:2), kill your teenagers if they are disobedient (Deuteronomy21:18-21). Girls who are not virgins when they marry(Deuteronomy 22:12-21) endorse slavery and the beating of them(Exodus 21:20-21) yet in the new testament jesus is the total opposite e.g stopping the stoning of the lady.
  3. Twice in the bible God shows himself. e.g to thomas and peter. why no one since? why should they get the evidence they wanted to save them but god chooses no one else to since then!?
  4. Why are amputees never healed!?

again just a few quick ones from long list! I wish not to bore you! So what made you guys stop believing?

Kind Regards!

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You have just displayed your complete ignorance of the Theory of Evolution with the above statement. You appear to only have read one book. Maybe you would be willing to learn something new about Evolution?

Well, based on the Theory of Evolution, we came from common ancestors but then branched off. I believe it's been stated at 6 million years ago. 

So far 'God/god' seems less substantial than air, at least we could do experiments with 'air', maybe even extract other types of air/gases from it with some ingenuity.

It would really be very nice to have something more than 'words' to go on. If we could just get 'God/god' to consent to being weighed, I might accept an angel as his representative, but they would need to stop beating their wings long enough to get a good reading. Sadly, since 'God/god' can do 'anything', this opens the door to the greatest/worst sloppy science, but seemingly acceptable theology.

I would be much more willing to settle for a basic contractural agreement between 'The Sciences' and 'Theology'. We will not keep hasseling each other about, 'my truth', versis 'your truth', like it is some high school male peeing contest. Both parties can just agree to disagree.

People that think 'speeking in tounges' is the hight of spiritual enlightenment, can just keep with their evening or afternoon babbling. The Lutherians can always be sure of a gluten free communion with wine or apple juice. The rest of us, carry on, holding the banner high for 'our side'.

Me, I have a few gardens to tend to, and a older crazy person thay keeps taking the very nice roses when only 'god/quantum flux' is watching!

Reading Michael's stuff, makes me think that I should send him flower seeds to help him chill out, or a copy of Voltaire's 'Candid'. Tend your garden man, it might be the one place to find some sanity without the deafing down pour of words.

Man has separated science from God. Science is the proof that God exists, yet it has been separated at birth, like twins joined at the hip.

Science is man's impotent attempt to explain all things without God. It lacks. greatly.

As for speaking in tongues, anyone can babble. I was babbled at once when seeking out a church and frankly, it scared me away. I though the woman was demon possessed.

Why do "believers" (I use that term loosely) place more authority on the words of Paul in scripture than in the one who was the Son of God (if you read the book)??

That is the question burning in my mind.

So S. Graham if Science is the proof that God exists would you be good enough to offer some of that proof to us please.

Science is man's impotent attempt to explain all things without God. It lack. greatly.

No, it is the complete reverse.

Is it the reverse? What do you mean by that?

Science has been separated from 'god' to give it breathing space from all the vain noise coming from theists.

Like 'theology', 'Science' can deal with the same subject 'the structure, origin, purpose, past and future' of 'reality'. Sadly theology seems to confuse angels, Christ's blood, 'son of God', 'the will of god', with 'evidence', and pretends that claims of belief constitute 'truth'. You are free to pretend that you know something about 'the son of god', but it seems rather thin, many here are not impressed. I personally would be more impressed if Christ were just considered a philosopher, at least we could cut through the seeming mile high belief noise, to find a signal. 

I have seen these answers before and they are usually said by former RCCrs or other Xian faiths who have left their churches.

Are you an ex-believer then?

Also, I don't like you presumption that I am pretending anything. Who are you to know what I do or do not believe? As for anyone who "pretends", that is a form of lying which I do not condone from anyone  atheist or otherwise.

Actually I was 'raised' catholic, I was never really a believer, more like a young kid trying to figure out what it meet, after being dumped on with the ideology. My parents thought it would be a good 'influence', yes it was, sadly, for them, it also started the process of questioning and wondering. The unintended effect was 'what, I don't THINK so!'

Trying to 'believe' was more like a fish jumping out of the water, and trying to breath...

I figure that if we really don't know, we either 'pretend to', or 'hold it in brackets', till we find something convincing.

If I join with theists folks, I do so on other measures where we can be ok with each other. I think the concept of the 'sacred' is non-trivial for us. I 'feel it' to...   

Hello Toby.

I used to think all the same things you listed. I grew up in a Godless home. We had no bible, we did not go to church. Later in my mid 20s I became a Xian, but sort of in name only. I didn't attend churches of any sort, I couldn't stand the hypocrisy. So I stumbled for a long time and by myself mostly.

I asked myself all the same questions you have asked.

If I tell you I now understand, I now get it and it all makes sense, would you even believe me? Would you even want to dialogue with me?

If I told you that the answers to all your questions can be found, what would you say?

I think people on the whole are so incredibly disappointed in their Xian faith and they walk away because speaking from my own experience, Xianity is like decaf coffee. It looks like coffee, might even smell a bit like it, but when it comes down to taste, it is sorely lacking.

For all Xians who have been taught about what Xianity is, it is lacking in many ways.

The ONLY way to prove or disprove whether there is a God or not, is to investigate. Each person must do this on their own and not with the help of outside sources.

IOWs, truly, it must be done in private with no one passing any kind of judgment on you.

You say you don't want to know God, but I think you do. Why else would you post the questions you do?

To be a believer means nothing. Even the demons believe.

To memorize and quote scripture means  nothing. Even the devil can quote scripture.

but---if you really want to prove there is no God, then get the Bible and examine it for yourself, by yourself.

This is no different than any scientist who sets out to disprove a colleague's certain theory. They fully examine the work of their opponent, study it closely, scrutinize it and put it to their own test.

As for God not showing Himself to anyone after Thomas and Peter....think of it this way:

He came in human form, yet His own did not receive Him. Why?? Because they looked at the flesh of Him and saw Him as just another man.

There was no pie in the sky, action fantasy movie played out. He did not come riding a white horse with blazing sword to save the day, and that is what they wanted, the people that is.

It isn't like that and there is a reason why, but difficult to explain at this time.

And here's another bubble popper---there isn't going to be a pie in the sky rapture either.

I could explain your #2 also, but that would take some time. There is an answer to this and it makes perfect sense, but the answer, the full and simple explanation WILL NEVER be provided in any Xian church.

Your first group of questions, #1:God did not create  a world full of sickness. The enemy did. This question also, gets answered if people stop listening to their ear tickling pastors who have also been taught lies.  They cannot be held accountable anymore than the sheeple they preach to.

Consider this:

you have something to put together. Do you open the manual and read the steps first, then begin to assemble, or do you listen to someone who has no clue about how to put it together?

So too the Bible should be looked at this way.

For everyone here who doesn't believe in God, the challenge is to prove their belief, isn't it?

Have you really read it or just echoing what you were told by someone else?

Not meaning to criticize, just wanting clarification.

The ONLY way to prove or disprove whether there is a God or not, is to investigate. Each person must do this on their own and not with the help of outside source

Nobody here is looking for proof of your God. We would appreciate any evidence, even the smallest scarp of it, if you have any. But we know you don’t. All you have is your subjective faith and opinions.

I think people on the whole are so incredibly disappointed in their Xian faith.

What about Muslims? What about people who never heard about your God?

So what you're really saying is that I have no right to my beliefs, right?

I cannot give you any proof for two reasons:

1. You already have it in your mind I'm delusional, so anything I have to say would be considered lies, right?

2. If I reached my conclusions about God as being real, I did it without any other human being offering up their reasons.

By virtue of #2, it would then, not be my place to argue for the existence of God. If He is real, each person has to cry out their words into the universe and ask if He is real.

Not me or anyone else can possibly do that for another. It is a personal thing.

If this site is a place where all are respected, then why criticize my words which are not meant to harm at all. Am I not free to voice my opinion or answer the questions of others?

If I am wrong in what I believe, I invite you to prove me wrong. Give me your evidence that you have researched. I am an open minded person. I came here to understand about atheism and yes, to ask questions to gain better understanding. Is there something wrong with that?


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