I use to be a full on christian(see my blog ect for more background) I just wanted to type down the reasons in my head that made me deconvert and see what made others do it too!?
For me it was not the whole Creation Vs Evolution as I was one of those Christians who believed in evolution ect.
So what did open my eyes to the truth?
The main thing for me was the logic of god and how its just doesn't stack up. And if there was a god it certainly wasn't one i would want to follow... So my following points are all on the assumption that as the bible says god is all knowing, loving and powerful. so why this all powerful, knowing and loving god:
Those are just two quick examples out of many more.
Secondly was the bible. Even when i did not take the bible literally e.g adam and eve ect.. there are certain contradictions and points that simply dont work. Remembering that gods word was the same 'then, today and forever more'
again just a few quick ones from long list! I wish not to bore you! So what made you guys stop believing?
The mere fact that people feel they can do a wholote of bad things, ask someone for forgivness & aim/hope to end up somewhere in the sky (heaven) laced with gold, just seems all stupid and ignorant.
I would agree. Even as a Christian, I would say that is stupid and ignorant.
Oseiza: The mere fact that people feel they can do a wholote of bad things, ask someone for forgivness & aim/hope to end up somewhere in the sky (heaven) laced with gold, just seems all stupid and ignorant.
Bob: I would agree. Even as a Christian, I would say that is stupid and ignorant. Good job!
Agreed. The Catholic sacrament of confession and the Catholic concept of heaven-- which is described in images far more mundane than "gold laced"-- is stupid and ignorant.
Not that stupidity and ignorance ever stops Bob. (How many times have you been to stupid confession to ensure your passage to ignorant heaven, Bob?)
Oseiza, you've been here barely a week and you've already exposed Bob as a silly hypocrite.
"Only God forgives sins. Since he is the Son of God, Jesus says of himself, "The Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins" and exercises this divine power: "Your sins are forgiven." Further, by virtue of his divine authority he gives this power to men to exercise in his name." - CCC 1441
"This mystery of blessed communion with God and all who are in Christ is beyond all understanding and description. Scripture speaks of it in images: life, light, peace, wedding feast, wine of the kingdom, the Father's house, the heavenly Jerusalem, paradise: "no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man conceived, what God has prepared for those who love him." - CCC 1027
I think the FATAL mistake that Xians make is the belief that they can go on "sinning" and feel confident they will be saved. We are and will be held accountable and I believe in Karma. Just because one might get the General Admission ticket through believing in the Son of God, doesn't mean they get any crowns or tickets to the box seats.
First thing that must happen is to clear up what it means to "SIN".
According to indepth study of what it means to be WICKED/EVIL/UNCLEAN/LAWLESS. This is the definition of SIN.
We all fall short of the Glory of God and in order to understand WHY "Jesus" died on the cross, the first thing to do is to gain a complete understanding of what it says about
curses in the OT. Yup, sorry there is NO WAY to understand anything about anything in Scripture unless BOTH OT and NT are studied, but first the OT must be learned. It is mandatory and THIS is WHY Xianity fails and THIS is WHY people leave their faith.
If anyone believes I am wrong, then prove me wrong and study it out.
If anyone believes I am wrong, then prove me wrong and study it out.
This is a burden of proof fallacy. You claim God exists. You make a number of claims regarding your religious convictions. It falls to you to prove your claims, not to anyone else to disprove them.
It is a miracle that you have a rational brain to come to such a conclusion if it came from a universe that sprang from nothing, then proceeded to be fine tuned for life with you living a goldilocks zone having parameters such that if they were off in in the 22nd decimal place life would be impossible with scientist insisting that you evolved from lower forms despite there being a stalk dearth of transitional forms and a contradictory genetic record if any.
Some yawnable background for you:
A wide variety of arguments exist [for God] which can be categorized as metaphysical, logical, empirical, or subjective.
Then choose your weapon, start a new post and present an argument yourself. I'm not interested in your cut-and-paste "debates" or where you merely assert that an argument for God exists but refuse to trot out the actual argument for the standard beat-down.
Atheists generally maintain that arguments for the existence of God provide insufficient reason to believe.
The reference to "insufficient reason" for God describes my position, yes.
And frankly many conclude that God exists or don't exist based on none of the above.
Maybe "many" theists or atheists draw conclusions-- with the vast bulk of the conclusions being in the theist camp-- but I don't. I'm an agnostic atheist. God is unproved, not disproved.
Yet many things are used from the above to support personalized rationales even as you propose by grouping any sort of claim as requiring a proof.
The God claim (like any supernatural claim) is insufficiently supported by any means. Choose your proving ground and have at it: science, reason, logic, evidence, and so on.
Formal structured proofs can not be applied to belief.
That's why you lose. Anything asserted without support may be dismissed without support. Admitting that you cannot support the God claim is conceding defeat.
A proof of an existential belief borders on being an oxymoron. since once it is proven, it is no longer a belief but rather a fact.
Gosh, what a profound dilemma. I mean, say you believe in the Easter Bunny. Once you prove he exists, you're no longer required to believe he exists. It borders on oxymoronic (with emphasis on the moronic).
You can ask the question, "what is your personalized rational for the existential belief in God"...
You do not get to have a personalized version of reason. The proper name for that is irrationality.
One answer maybe the acceptence of eye wittness testimony as documented in the bible.
The Bible is the claim, not the evidence.
Another reason maybe personally experiencing the miraculous. Others may feel that God speaks to them in the form of answered prayers. Others may feel that their lives have been blessed since they try to live morally in accordance with God's ordinances.
A "personal experience" or "feeling" as support for claims of miracles, answered prayers and magical blessings is an anecdotal fallacy, not reason.
Yet others may lay claim to all of the aforementioned.
The absence of extraordinary support for these extraordinary claims and the typical presence of fallacious "support" like yours is the reason I reject them.
The only evidence stated by Christians is inadmissible:
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.
12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.
13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.
20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.
21 By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.
22 By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.
23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.
24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;
25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;
26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.
27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.
28 Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.
29 By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.
30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.
31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.
32 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:
33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions.
34 Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.
35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
38 (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
If I accept the premise that God is invisible then I am compelled to take all the above as evidence, no matter how irrational or illogical it is. We are specks on the sands of time, our arms are to short to box with either miracles of nature or God. And what is the motivation to gamble on the irrational or illogical, well, eternal life. If I am saved by faith in that which can not be proven then, I most certainly will not waste my time proving it a fact as to void its power to save based on faith in the invisible. The only sign that he has given us, is the death and resurrection of the Captain of our lives (souls).
Your post is just another round of cut-and-paste plagiarism, Michael.
If I accept the premise that God is...
This is stupid, Michael. I reject your premise that God exists because you've provided no reason whatsoever to think that he does. The rest of this is irrelevant...
...invisible then I am compelled to take all the above as evidence...
...because, by your own admission, this "evidence" is based on accepting the unsupported premise that God exists, which means it's not evidence and has no support at all.
...no matter how irrational or illogical it is.
Nonsense is not "compelling", Michael. It's ridiculous.
We are specks on the sands of time, our arms are to short to box with either miracles of nature or God. And what is the motivation to gamble on the irrational or illogical, well, eternal life. If I am saved by faith in that which can not be proven then, I most certainly will not waste my time proving it a fact as to void its power to save based on faith in the invisible. The only sign that he has given us, is the death and resurrection of the Captain of our lives (souls).
This is proselytizing.
Be careful, Michael.
No plagerizing involved, but I should use quotes or indicate my source.
When I say yawnable background in the previous thread, you should have taken the hint that its from a referenced source. once again you have set up a strawman.
Science does not have to disprove the existence of God, however it should sufficiently prove that hominids evolved from lower forms. Heretofore the evidence has been cirmcumstantial based on morphology, but as of late, the morphological auguments have been countered by the DNA evidence that had not been available in the past. Case in point, Homo-sapien sapiens evolved from Neanderthal, as stated in my biological text book. Not true, as supported by the DNA evidence.
Curious. if man evolved from apes and monkeys....why then are there still some apes and monkeys that didn't "evolve"???
What did those apes and monkeys do to piss off God so much that He didn't allow them to "evolve"?
You have just displayed your complete ignorance of the Theory of Evolution with the above statement. You appear to only have read one book. Maybe you would be willing to learn something new about Evolution?
Well, based on the Theory of Evolution, we came from common ancestors but then branched off. I believe it's been stated at 6 million years ago.