Why does Faith Trump Intelligence?
One of my favorite people of all time is Cornel West. Two of his most well known books are Race Matters and Democracy Matters where his views on society are for the most part, incredibly on the mark. I've heard him live a couple of times and he is wonderful to listen to. He is also a frequent quest on Real Time with Bill Maher where he rails against the right yet at the same time has been known to call out Obama. Anyway as I was listening to him the other day, I started to think, how could a man of such intelligence, hold onto something as unintelligent as religion? He is a man of deep faith. Expanding on this idea, why is it that many people of incredible intelligence are people of religion? What is it about what they get from religion that allows them all to suspend reason on one day a week and give themselves to the land of the make-believe? One of the main doctors who is treating Hitchens is a man of faith. This is a guy who has studied science in depth and has seen cells divide. He knows there is no scientific basis for his beliefs. Yet he believes. Is it because all these people need to religion to deal with death? Is because it is what is expected in our society and to be otherwise is too difficult? I just don't understand.
What are your thoughts with this? Why does intelligence, reason, intelligent thoughts more often than not, lost out to religion? I would love to hear from of our friends of faith on here as well.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by 3equ3cp1fsw0n on -
But one way of looking at it from a logical AND religious sense is that god created this universe for man to discover.
@ Alexander - Personally, I don't think that is a good way to look at it, because I would like to kick the God that created this universe in the nuts, because there is too much suffering; unless he is not omnipotent and did not intentionally mean for it to turn out this way. In that case, well he would not really be a God, would he?
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Permalink Reply by Neil C. Reinhardt on
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So all you "Believers" Answer many of we FORMER Christians this:
Just how can any All Powerful and All Knowing god who is also supposedly Loving, Compassionate, Kind, Fair, and Caring, ever possibly create a world which is filled with living things which must kill each other to live?
How could such a "Loving" ALL Powerful God and ALL Knowing god create a world which has Earthquakes, Tsunamis, Volcanoes, Land Slides, Floods, Hurricanes, Wild Fires, Tornados and Plagues?
Just how could any supposedly Loving, Fair, Caring, Compassionate, Kind and Just god who was an All Powerful and All Knowing god possibly create a world filled with humans who starve, torture, rape and kill each other as well as other living things?
Who commit terrorist acts and conduct wars over whose set of religious beliefs is right?
There are only two possible answers.
1. The Christian god, as described, DOES NOT EXIST!
OR
2. The God of the Christians is really just one totally INCOMPETENT god!
And FYI Children, neither any non-existent, nor incompetent gods are worthy of any respect, much less your worship!
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Permalink Reply by Sean Fraser on -
Being dumb is easy. Why learn about the world around you when you can just chalk it up to god and spend the day sitting in front of your tv with a case of beer and a Teen Mom and Jersey Shore marathons? Learning takes effort. The Situation doesn't.
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Permalink Reply by Arcus on -
'Tis true.
Students spend 12-16 hours per day reading or in class, essentially working 80% of waking hours. Not much time for entertainment.
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Permalink Reply by Jason Ward on -
It took a great deal of effort to watch him attempt stand-up at the roast of Donald Trump.
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Permalink Reply by Jason Ward on
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I think for many it comes down to willful suppression, imagine the death of a loved one, the prospect of such an event is something one simply does not wish to ponder and understandably so but in the same way I think many folks regardless of intellect just don't desire to face the reality of death.
I didn't read all the responses, sorry if I copied someone.
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Permalink Reply by Neil C. Reinhardt on
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Heather Spoonheim SAID:
" we still don't' know if an imposed democracy will stand."
NCR Sez: REALLY?
Ever hear of JAPAN? GERMANY? PANAMA? etc., etc., etc.
----------------
Arcus SAID:
"'The Iraq (war)�was not justified.' I'd say it was. It wasn't particularly well done, but if it had been over in 200 hours no one would have said it was unjustified.
A sociopat with million of lifes on his conscience was removed, that's pretty much all the justification required."
NCR Sez: You are, as any rational and logical person who has taken the time to get the facts and is intelligent enough to be able to comprehend them knows. are correct about it being fully justified.
(From the comments here you can see some do not fit the above criteria)
Still, your statement "no one would have said it was unjustified." is incorrect as the irrational, illogical, uninformed and retarded were, in their brainless ignorance, saying it was unjustified before it ever started.
FYI, Iraqi officals have found the graves of 350,0000 Iraqis which Saddam had executed.
JUST MY 17th FACT in my list of 17 facts which I put together in 2003, is for ANY Moral, Kind, Caring Compassionate, and Civilized person all by its little self, more than a sufficient reason to remove Saddam*s regime from power.
My Fact # 17
Saddam had a special prison set up JUST FOR CHILDREN! (age 12 & under) In this prison, these KIDS were starved, beaten, raped, tortured and murdered!�
What was these Childrens "Crime"?�
Someone in their family had said, and /or had done, something which some person in Saddam*s regime had not liked!
One LITTLE girl was ONLY TWO years old when She was TORTURED!
The existence of this prison was reported by a Chief U.N. Weapons Inspector and Anti-War Loony Left Retard Scott Ritter.�
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During an interview with Scott Ritter, a former "Top UN weapons inspector," the Time magazine interviewer, Massimo Calabresi asked:
"You've spoken about having seen the children's prison in Iraq. Can you describe what you saw there?"
RITTER's answer:
"The prison in question is at the General Security Services headquarters, which was inspected by my team in Jan. 1998.
It appeared to be a prison for children � toddlers up to pre-adolescents - whose only crime was to be the offspring of those who have spoken out politically against the regime of Saddam Hussein.
It was a horrific scene.
Actually I'm not going to describe what I saw there because what I saw was so horrible that it can be used by those who would want to promote war with Iraq, and right now I'm waging peace."
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Shortly after the war started, this prison was captured and then closed down by some United States Marines from Camp Pendleton, Ca.
Scott Ritter is a TOTAL JACKASS! He did not want any action taken to close down this prison only because Ritter was anti war!
Of course, were any of the kids in that prison HIS kids, I doubt he'd had the same view. Which makes him a total hypocrite!
JUST like ANY who were/are against the war, who have and/or want children & who would not want THEIR kids to be Imprisioned, Starved, Beaten, Raped, Tortured and Murdered!
Anyone who knows of the existence this prison and does not agree that IT ALONE was a sufficient reason for us to remove Saddam from power, is NOT a Kind, Caring, Compassionate, Civilized, Good or a Moral person!
THEY ARE IN FACT, LOW LIFE SCUM!
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Permalink Reply by Arcus on
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"Still, your statement "no one would have said it was unjustified." is incorrect as the irrational, illogical, uninformed and retarded were, in their brainless ignorance, saying it was unjustified before it ever started."
There are two sides to the argument (if you leave the absolute peace nicks to their folly): The official casus belli (WMDs) was a roadshow with little substance behind it, thus making the official justification weak. However, the underlying justification of protecting civilians from a cold-blooded murderer which clearly did not mind genocide would have been legitimate.
For comparison, Qadaffi's atrocities pales in comparison to the ones committed by Saddam, and noone (that matters) is saying that the current war in Libya is unjustified. Same goes for the bombs against Milosevic.
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Permalink Reply by Neil C. Reinhardt on
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William C. Walker SAID:
"The Iraq was not justified."
NCR Sez: THAT IS TOTAL B,S. !
It proves the only thing which exceeds your INFINITE IGNORANCE of the MANY FACTS which PROVE YOU are WRONG, is your ASTRONOMICAL ARROGANCE in your even thinking you have the slightest Clue!
I DEFY YOU TO PROVE EVEN ONE OF MY 17 REASONS JUSTIFYING THE IRAQ WAR are NOT 100% FACTUAL!
WANT TO TRY? Send me an email address and I will send them to you.
Next, Are you a US Military Veteran?
I am! I served over six years in the National Guard and/or Active Army Reserves including graduation from Advanced NCO School at Ft. Benning, Ga. Plus over three years on active duty in the regular army serving mostly as a paratrooper in the elite 101st Airborne Division.
[***edited by moderator.- Nelson***] as believe that MANY of we Vets (as well as many HIGHLY Intelligent, Well Informed, Logical and Rational people including MANY Atheists**) would support a war where our fellow service members suffer, fight, bleed and die which is NOT FULLY Justified?
[***edited by moderator.- Nelson***]
[***edited by moderator.- Nelson***]
http://VetsForFreedom.org/
** these Atheists include Chris Hitchens,
Eugene Volokh, Cliff Walker Tammy
Bruce and of course, ME!
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Permalink Reply by Heather Spoonheim on -
[***edited by moderator.- Nelson***] Maybe go out for a walk or something.
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Permalink Reply by Nelson on -
******MODERATOR'S NOTE**********
1. the personal insults will cease RIGHT NOW. continue with the personal insults and the inappropriate method of engagement generally only if you don't value your membership of Think Atheist.
2. keep the discussion on topic! the iraq war and all the rest of the irrelevant nonsense (given the topic of the thread) must be taken to a different thread, either an existing one (please use the search function before starting another thread) or a new one.
i've edited the personal insults out of the posts that contained them (that i saw.)
i've messaged the offenders personally to let them know that it needs to stop.
from here on out the moderators will be forced to discuss temporary and or permanent bans.
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