Really people, I don't get what's the point in arguing with really religious people... is like yelling at deaf people. Is as useful as praying for atheists to become catholics. I guess the only way we could make a difference is if people are willing to hear reasons, to make our schools teach science, to educate instead of preaching.
So why do we have to use our energy in people who doesn't deserve it? Why not trying to change through "real" ways as banning intelligent desing in our schools or banning catholic lessons in our junior highs?
Sorry for the bad english, i'm not a native speaker.
Geesh you people always make me hungry.. lol.
I am cooking a Pork Shoulder for BBQ sandwiches tomorrow night, We are having a solstice party.
I do the same thing for the most part. I have had too many bad experiences with theists. They are batshit crazy.
And Jean Marie put her finger right on the reason for it, though she was not trying to do so. She said to attack the idea and not the person. The trouble is that most theists can't tell the difference! That's why they go apeshit. Especially if you win the argument. Their religion is completely intertwined with their egos.
Only when they start the argument - i.e. every argument I ever had with with a theist. Or as I posted recently -
I attack it for its treatment of children and the ways it pollutes young minds with nonsense. I attack it for its demand for genital mutilation of both sexes. I attack it for its view that education is not necessary, especially for girls. I attack it for its insistence that women should be subservient to men and that they should only be concerned with children and looking after their husband, no matter how many wives he is allowed. I attack it for its views on homosexuality. I attacked it because of the bigotry of its views especially towards it vows of poverty and celibacy. I attack it for not standing up and defending the voiceless. I attack it for the smugness of it adherents. I attack it for making idiots of people who believe the world is 6000 years old. I attack it because its churches will not confront the fact that raping children is wrong. I attack it because it allows and condones the murder of people in its name. Stoning people to death in the 21st centaury? I attack it for preying on vulnerable people and giving them false hope. I attack it for its involvement in politics. I attack it for telling me what we can and can’t do with our own bodies. I attack it again for its bigotry and the bigots who run the different religions. I attack it for saying that people who have doubts or use their reason are sinful. I attack it for not admitting it is wrong and that it time is up.
I attack it for its demand for respect from me by these bigots without showing me any because I am an Atheist.
I get your point, but... arguing with a single idiot doesn't make any difference if the system supports them. I guess it could be more effective to educate instead of preaching. For example: instead of telling them they are idiots for believing girls shouldn't go to school, banning that with our laws, or making public forums for discussion. Because arguing with a single jerk in the streets... it seems pointless.
"It seems pointless."
If it is pointless, would we have made any civil rights progress in the past 50 years or so?
Progress often appears slow, but it does happen with enough discourse and exposure. Even if you don't win against the theist for that argument, others may be watching, you may learn from the experience, the seeds of doubt could be planted, even if nothing happens at all, it is better than being silent and falling in line.
Strongly concur. I do not seek out people to discuss/ argue religion with, but if somebody (believe me, many people here in the southern United States ask me about religion and why I'm not Christian) asks me about why I think the way I do, I try my best to explain it in a way that makes perfectly clear how I feel about Theism, and why I think that Theism is a complete waste of time, energy, and livelihood.
"You don't drink alcohol--Why?"
"People never do that with anything else."
"You don't use mayonnaise? Why? Is it okay if I use mayonnaise? It doesn't bother you if I use mayonnaise in front of you?"
A Catholic, but slowly becoming one of us. His jokes are good. and about food.
at any rate, somehow Atheism is one of those few things it's okay to get up in someone's face about choosing and immediately try to convert them on the spot(most christians where I live believe that conversion on the spot is the ONLY conversion worth doing...). However, we don't see the same for alcohol, for any sort of drugs, for homosexuality(oh gosh that would be hilarious), for life-long celibacy, or for political issues(become a republican TONIGHT!).
We debate with them not because we expect an instant conversion, but because putting the word out there makes it more likely to happen, even if instant change is not apparent.
In one generation, with my family, you have two racist, ableist, sizist, misogynist, theist parents who gave birth to an atheist, body-acceptance, equality-supporting eldest daughter. It took me time but I have gotten to where I am and I hope to grow and learn more in the future. Too bad I'd make a horrible mother.
“instead of telling them they are idiots for believing girls shouldn't go to school, banning that with our laws, or making public forums for discussion”
It would help if religion got out of politics. Then maybe we could have better education systems that taught science or did not indoctrinate children. Some countries are so religious and devout that they throw people into prison or kill them for trying to open up a public debate.
Your comment reminds of "The family" or "C Street a evangelical christian group some of our senators and representatives are involved in. They are linked with Uganda and it's attack on homosexuality. Jeff Sharlet wrote a book about them..http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/04/world/africa/04uganda.html