Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Anil Antony on January 20, 2010 at 12:05pm

ok

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Anil Antony on January 20, 2010 at 12:17pm

God is never non-existent

The Veda says “Asanneva Sa bhavati…” etc. This hymn means “God exists while being the non-existent. Realize that God is both the existent and non-existent items. Then you will realize that God exists”. This hymn needs an elaborate analytical explanation. You can bring another Vedic statement here (Tat Srushtvaa…, Satcha Tyat Chaabhavat…). This means “God created the world and entered into it. Then He became both existent and non-existent”. Bring the Gita here (Manusheem Tanum...), which means that God enters the human body.


The non-existent items (Asat) are energy, matter and awareness, forms and feelings. Forms and feelings are non-existent with respect to matter and awareness. Both matter and awareness are non-existent with respect to energy. Energy is non-existent with respect to God. God is never non-existent. He is always existent (Sat). When God enters in the energetic form, the energetic form consists of form and energy and both these are relatively true (Asat) items.

When God enters the human body, the body consists of matter, energy, awareness, forms and feelings, which are also relatively true (Asat) items only. You have to take that form as God as you take the live wire as current. If you agree that the unimaginable God exists and enters imaginable items, which are non-existent (since they are relatively true), now you can say that God exists and is visible. Through the imaginable and relatively non-existent items (like energetic form or human body) only you can experience God.


The Veda says that God becomes both ‘Sat’ and ‘Tyat’. God exists as God and also as non-God (body and soul). In human body, He entertains Himself under the illusion of forms and feelings like an ordinary human being. If necessary, He will rise to higher level and will realize that forms and feelings are unreal. If still necessary, He will rise to still higher level, will realize both matter and awareness as unreal, and will perform miracles. Finally, He will rise to the highest level, where energy also becomes unreal and in this state, He is creator, maintainer and destroyer of the world. In this highest level only the Gita or the Bible or (divine knowledge) comes out.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Dave G on January 20, 2010 at 3:57pm

Energy and matter are non-existent? Matter is non-existent with respect to energy?

Matter and energy are the same thing. E=mc². Matter and energy can be converted into one another.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Anil Antony on January 20, 2010 at 11:11pm

i think you did not understood my reply.

The God of science

According to science, inert energy is basic material of this universe, which creates, maintains and finally dissolves entire creation and is the God of science. The design of the world doesn’t require the need of awareness because a long duration of time has set up the design of world perfectly by the theory of probability. Scientists do not accept the necessity of an intellectual agent to design this wonderful world as philosophers imagine in Vedanta (Brahmasutras). If this is the end of the story, science could have easily disposed the proposal of Vedanta and the scriptures can be easily concluded as poetic imaginations of certain poets. It can be easily concluded that certain people have created this poetry to exploit the society in the name of God. Anyone can easily believe science and by this time the world should have been filled with atheists only and today, the minority should be theists.

But surprisingly the majority is theists and minority is only atheists. The atheists say that since majority is uneducated, theism exists due to possibility of easy exploitation of uneducated people. But even educated people show majority of theists only all over the world. What is the reason for this? The reason for this is that the unimaginable God is showing miracles in the lives of several people to establish the existence of unimaginable God.

Not only this, the unimaginable God is exhibiting unimaginable miracles through several devotees and also demons widely. Not only this, God is coming in human form and is offering explanation of the miracles and concept of God. Genuine miracles are many in the world and the minority of atheists is unable to dispose these miracles as magic. You may write the correct answer through copying in the examination. Some body might have also written the same correct answer without copying in the examination. Since the answer is one and same, can you say that the other person who has written the correct answer also copied necessarily? The product may be same but the methods of production vary. Sodium chloride can be produced in several ways. You have produced it in one way. I have produced it in another way. The end product is the same sodium chloride. You cannot say that I have also produced in your way only.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Dave G on January 20, 2010 at 11:52pm

Ah, I see what you are getting at. However, you are neglecting several factors. First of all, not everyone has an education in science. And it is an interesting point that, in the Academy of Science, over 90% of scientists do not profess a belief in a deity. Education is certainly a major factor in this sort of thing.

Also, you're arguing a logical fallacy, namely argument ad popularum. Just because an idea or concept is popular, that has no bearing on its truth. A truth is till true even is no one believes it, and a falsehood is still false, even if everyone believes it.

Next, you're neglecting the human capacity for self-deception. Humans are very good at believing something without evidence for it, and even in the face of contradictory evidence. That's is why the scientific method is so important, as it provides a framework for confirming and validating things which are based on evidence, and disproving or rejecting things which either can provide no supporting evidence or go against evidence.

Finally, there are no confirmed miracles. There have been plenty of tricks, hordes of delusions and fantasies, and enough tall tales to fill the ocean, but no confirmed miraculous event has taken place.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Wesley on January 21, 2010 at 12:39am

Good Points Dave... And neurologists and neuroscientists are learning new things about awareness and perception every day. (People like V.S. Ramachandran for one)

I can personally attest to the 'phenomenalogical' realities of meditational experiences... The feeling of leaving the body, the traveling to different inner realms', the feeling of oneness or connecting to everything, etc.... And neurologists are discovering WHY we make these assumptions.

I don't doubt the yogi when they say that they have experienced 'this or that' state of being.... What I question is the 'ultimate' interpretation of that.

The reason that 'spiritual' experiences are similar from culture to culture isn't because of a supernatural spirit world.... but because of the universal nature and structure of the brain. All humans come with one and they are very much alike.

I don't dispute the yogic path to spiritual peace... I dispute the absolutely rigid supernatural definitions of what that may mean.

I honestly believe the early yogic meditators were honest researchers....(bogged down by their various world-views of course) but much more open to experience and perception and the 'possible'. Later on their experiences became 'concretized' and 'fixed' into a 'literal' inner universe. Once the interpretive matrix is set in stone progress beyond it becomes very difficult.

It's hard to step outside the box.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Dave G on January 21, 2010 at 10:16am

And there is a difference between what someone may have experienced and reality. If the brain processes something, it can be considered experience, but whether that experience has any basis in reality is open to debate.

As an example, if someone were to take a dose of a hallucinogenic drug, they may experience things like talking rabbits, dancing penguins, or their bedroom door melting into a puddle and then reforming as a giant snake which speaks Russian. This doesn't mean that those events actually occurred in reality, though.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Wesley on January 21, 2010 at 7:29pm

Yes... They may be 'phenomenalogically' real. e.g. You may have the experience of seeing what you interpret as dancing penguins and talking rabbits.. I don't doubt that part of it at all. The same with angels, demons, gods, goddesses, and 'mystical experiences' etc they are the same. Your mind can have these experiences.

Its the ultimate interpretation of these experiences that is up for debate.

Do we take the mystics word and just accept that these things happen in a supernatural spirit world... because they have the 'experience' of 'knowing' that this is so?

That used to be enough for me...and even my own subjective experiences seemed to confirm this... but what I soon realized that all that was being confirmed was the subjective experience not 'reality'.

One thing I do know... . Every mystical report ever given was by someone with a body and a brain.

Neuroscientists and researchers are breaking new ground every day..and the mystical and supernatural are losing ground on what was once their exclusive domain.

No body, no brain..... no experience.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by willailla on June 22, 2010 at 7:59pm

"The Veda says “Asanneva Sa bhavati…” etc. This hymn means “God exists while being the non-existent."

What all mysticism lacks is coherence and proof.

Anil, why should anyone care what the Veda says or the Bible or the Koran? Super naturalism is nonsense.

The religious devotee speaks endlessly but says nothing. As my Cherokee ancestors would say, 'He speaks with forked tongue; Indian no listen.' Unfortunately there seems to be an unlimited supply of the gullible who do.

• ▶ Reply