It almost seems like atheists don't want to believe in God. Do you just simply not want to believe in God because you don't want to give up your own free will?

ADMIN EDIT: Mercedes has left ThinkAtheist.com on her own accord. This discussion will remain, however do not expect a response from the author. 

~Dan.

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Mercedes, I get the impression that you're very young and very naive, and I certainly have no desire to convert you to anything, but I would encourage you to think for yourself, to forget what anyone tells you, and to actually read the book, every single page.

My guess is, that in whatever church you belong to, they gloss over the Old Testament as much as possible, and concentrate mostly on the New, and even more than that, specifically on the letters of Paul, generally because Paul says the kinds of things that most Christians would rather hear.

The Old Testament is full of Yahweh telling the Israelis who to kill, including women and children, whereas the New Testament is all about love and forgiveness. There's little wonder most churches would rather not let their sheep look too closely at a god that encourages the murder of innocent women and children, who personally kills people left and right - I can't imagine they could expect a great deal of new converts, based on following a bloodthirsty, murderous god, so they turn to Paul for sunshine and lollipops. This would be the Paul who never met Yeshua, yet claims to know all about him, including what he wants you to do.

I can understand that you want to believe in SOMEthing, I do, but I suggest you try believing first in yourself, then in your fellow man and the goodness that resides in most of us, and leave the fairy tales to children.

Mercedes, I get the impression that you're very young and very naive, and I certainly have no desire to convert you to anything, but I would encourage you to think for yourself, to forget what anyone tells you, and to actually read the book, every single page.

The only thing I would add, is learn the rules of logic and empirical observation. Then, as you read The Bible or any other "Holy" Book, apply the rules of logic, empiricism and good ethics and see if it passes the "smell" test. That is, examine what your are told to accept on faith with rational and ethical criticism.

RE: "I would add, is learn the rules of logic and empirical observation." - while I don't disagree, that's not something the very young do easily.

But why is the bar set so high? what's wrong with believing in God? Why do you ask for so much proof? God is invisible so we can't prove that, so that's why Jesus came. 

Yes I read the Bible Heather but your summary is really not relevent to my question. 

Ok, so which of the gods in there do you worship?  How do you know this current covenant is going to last any longer than the others?  Why would you expect me to spend my life on such a contradictory, double crossing story?

Actually her example isn't the greatest. How high is the bar for you to believe in Santa Clause? The Tooth Fairy? The Easter Bunny? Or more seriously, Vishnu? Shiva? (these are deities in the Hindu religion and have strong followings). The Bible simple states "There is this being called 'God'. This is what he/she/they (ancient Hebrew is an interesting language...) has done. This is what this being commands of you. Do this and believe in this being and good things will happen to you; if you don't bad things will happen to you". The Bible contains no proof and even the archeological evidence recently hasn't been painting a good picture (it's bad! It's REALLY bad!). This is coming from an ex-minister with three ordinations.

comparing God to the tooth fairy is really a bad comparison I think. It's not the same thing. None of those are the same thing.

And that's pretty rude to put Heather down like that.

Actually no name was used. The only thing that was addressed was a particular argument and not the person making it. The argument wasn't even being rebutted, just reframed for a particular audience. It is doubtful the original poster was offended.

Mercedes, Mercedes. How many gods do you worship? do you know that your religion choice is a matter of geographical settings? if you were born in India , you would be worshipin not your jesus? please Mercedes the god illusion is a cave men, I say men, short sighted thinking. god is in your mind

To an atheist God, Santa Clause, etc. are all imaginary beings of which at some point there is a group of people that believe in them (small children typically). This is the point of comparison - to the atheist they are all the same thing as a consequence. The last examples were actual dieties that are worshipped by a modern people in the thousands or even millions (I haven't checked the numbers lately). So my question boiled down to "What is the bar for you believe in something that you currently find imaginary and why is that bar is as high as it is?". If you want to know what it takes to convince someone to believe in something you have to put yourself exactly in their position and consider what it would take for you to be convinced. 

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