It almost seems like atheists don't want to believe in God. Do you just simply not want to believe in God because you don't want to give up your own free will?

ADMIN EDIT: Mercedes has left ThinkAtheist.com on her own accord. This discussion will remain, however do not expect a response from the author. 

~Dan.

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Yes lol, I have seen your name many times, and not often giving praise. I am usually more comfortable just lurking around, but her post saddened me to a point that I finally had to step out of lurk mode and finally post. I hope that if it does not help her tear down some walls, that someone else will read it and it will help them start to tear down some walls.

Your comment was very gentle. I think she was very young, but didn't say her age, but she meant well. I also think when theists come onto a site like this, they are having doubts, or a just very naive as to what an atheist really is. This, compared to a lot of sites, is generally very gentle, until real apologists come on - and it is game on. Mercedes was just curious. Totally different matter. There are also, sometimes, a xian posing as an atheist - but they get spotted pretty quickly.

Many disagreements here, and that is good - the only thing we have in common is 'Prove there is a god, somehow, and I will listen.'

Otherwise, say what you think. It is all good.

Holo, I like your disease and vector metaphor and will use it.

Mercedes' words reminded me that the religion disease can blind its victims to the reality that they have the disease.

Twelve years in Catholic schools, aided by a somewhat violent home, had blinded me. An intervention that caused me almost enough trauma to shoot myself awoke me to the reality.

I was reaching to a bedside drawer for my gun when I realized that my life was mine. That realization, 55 years ago, BEGAN the cure. I didn't know that I would years later write my siblings and tell them the Tom they had grown up with had died.  They of course didn't understand.

Religion needs people to be helpless so they will await the cure we call death.

I don't normally read the loooong ones...I read yours.

@Chrisn - Brilliant first post - now we will expect a lot from you :) just joking.

The bible is what converted me from a christian to an atheist - when you don't cherry pick, read the contradictions - realise  that the god of the bible is also a temper tantrum throwing ego maniac - voila - another atheist is born.

I sincerely hope you have made up for the time you lost as a teenager, I did. And don't forget Rock and Roll in the things to make up for. :)

Lol Im always around. I usually keep my mouth shut and just lurk around. I live by the saying "better to be thought of a fool, than open your mouth and remove all doubt" But thank you. And I have tried to make make up for the time I lost as a teen :)

Chrisn, I read your post; it proved you NOT a fool.

From Tom Sarbeck, Crisn, that is high praise indeed, something you can pass down to your grandchildren.

In a writing class about 30 years ago, the instructor told me I was a minimalist writer.

"One would think (at least if you are indoctrinated like I was) that this would be an earth shattering idea and that I would be another one of the hopeless. But In reality, after the unearthing of these truths inside my mind, I felt more free than I ever had. No longer was the burden of the invisible sky man always watching every thing I do on my chest. No longer was good and evil caused by God at Satan, but just men, and you can do something about men. I became responsible for me and my life. If I wanted something, instead of preying for it, I worked for it. I was a good person because its the right thing to do, not because I feared punishment in hell or rewards in heaven.

I started to live my life, instead of waiting to die for something better because this is all we have. I realized you have to make the most of it for one day you will nothing, much like before you were born. To some this maybe a fearful thought, to me Its quite liberating...

My only regret is that I took so long to come to this realization. I missed out of so much fun and excitement during high school for fear of punishment from god, such as sex, drinking, experimenting with drugs and all the other dumb things normal teens do."

Goddam it. It's like you are reading me back my own life story. Except the drugs part. I've never had a desire to do those.

I understand that one in particular seems completely real to you - Probably the Christian one? Gods don't seem real to us and many of us have spent a lot of time trying to find out if there is any evidence for them. There really isn't any and there are even records of how the Abrahamic god was invented. Did you realise that Abraham and Moses did not have the same god? Abraham's god was simply known as El and he looked like a man - one of many gods - remember he appeared under a tree to Abraham? Moses' god was later named Yahweh and he could not be looked on by human eyes. Lots of people had problems with this when the bible was pulled together, because they knew full well that they weren't the same gods. This is why the bible has God constantly saying 'I am the god of Abraham.' Does that not strike you as somewhat odd if there is only one god and no-one is questioning that Abraham worshipped Yahweh? Equally, Yahweh's wife Asherah disappeared when they decided Yahweh was to be the only god.

So anyway, there have been thousands of gods claimed to exist and I realise that your one seems really real to you but there is no more evidence for him than any of the others and we know how he got invented. I would love to believe in a good god and eternal life but that won't make it true. If I could believe things because I wanted them to be true, I would believe in a god a bit like Dumbledore.

Abraham came from Assyria, as will be noted in Genesis, in both the stories of Issac and or Jacob, which both mention Abe's nephew, still in Haran, in which he is called, "Laban, the Syrian." As I've explained on my website, the god of the Assyrians was "Amurru," and those who followed him, as Amurrites, or Amorites. Amurru was also known as "El Shaddai," "God of the Mountain," and at the beginning of Exodus, in the scene with the burning bush, Yahweh introduces himself to Moses, saying, "I was known to Abraham, Issac and Jacob as 'El Shaddai.'"

The thing is, that after leaving Egypt, Moses was taken in by a Semitic tribe known as the Kennites, or the Midianites (depending on who you talk to), who worshiped a desert god named, Yahweh. The writers of Exodus took the old stories of Amurru, blended them with the new belief in Yahweh, and a god was born.

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