It almost seems like atheists don't want to believe in God. Do you just simply not want to believe in God because you don't want to give up your own free will?

ADMIN EDIT: Mercedes has left ThinkAtheist.com on her own accord. This discussion will remain, however do not expect a response from the author. 

~Dan.

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Suzanne, have you seen anything on the pain-inflicting devices that in the early 1800s were attached to boys' penises to prevent masturbation?

Can it be that verbal bullying sufficed to discourage women?

The xians who say America was founded on xian principles are not altogether wrong.

The early pages of Sex and Reason (1992, Harvard) by Richard Posner, a Federal appellate court judge and law professor, explain the origins of America's long hostility to sexual pleasure: early America's combined Puritanism (its strict practices and lax rules) and Catholicism (its strict rules and lax practices).

His stated purposes? To awaken the legal profession to "the rich multidisciplinary literature on sexuality--and to shame my colleagues in the profession for ignoring it."

Many straight folk I knew in San Francisco cheered LGBT liberation because we knew their winning freedom would increase freedom for all of us. The struggle continues.

"The xians who say America was founded on xian principles are not altogether wrong."

True, however it's nice to know that we have grown as a society past slavery, women subjugation, and burning people at the stake as 'witches'.  None of the civilized behavior that this country was based on has anything to do with the xian (or any other) religion.  Religion abhors freedom, free thinking and education and xianity was and still is definitely no different.

This country was much more built on Grecian principles of Democracy than anything to do with the puritan's religion that first settled here.

"This country was much more built on Grecian principles of Democracy than anything to do with the puritan's religion that first settled here."

Considering only ideas, not practices, let's review a bit of history:

In ancient Greece only free men voted. In America until about 1840, only white men who owned real estate property voted.

Keith, can you add any ideas that will justify your much more built on Grecian principles claim?

Now, briefly, let's consider practices and see a Puritan influence.

For people who questioned Puritan leaders, remaining in Massachusetts was dangerous to their continued existence.

Returning to Massachusetts after the Puritans had expelled them was more dangerous to their continued existence.

One history of early America said the Puritans stopped burning witches when the governor protested their intention to burn his wife.

Richard A. Posner, in Sex and Reason, made a stronger case than you have so far made.

Ask for so much proof????? I asked for any proof and am still waiting

"Do you just simply not want to believe in God because you don't want to give up your own free will?"

I can't say I have looked carefully at all responses but did who noticed her desire to give up her ability to act independently and freely?

I was kind of confused by that question, because according to the accepted story, God supposedly gives us free will.

So I would think that a theist would see it the opposite way.  Not believing in God would be losing our source of free will.

Perhaps this was a Freudian slip?

I think the point is that doG (I LOVE that spelling!  LOL) gives us free will, but if we use it "wrong", we'll be punished for all eternity.  We can't be punished for all eternity like most xians would like if we don't have the freedom of will to reject god in the first place.  If you have free will, but reject it in order to self-impose slavery, then you're doing it right and you get praised for it.  If you exercise the free will that doG gave you, then you get punished.  If you read the bible and accept the doG that the xians do, this actually makes perfect sense.  LOL

And Mercedes is back,  I believe the God of the bible is as real as all the gods before it and the gods it was copied from. How did Adam and Eve populate the world with their two sons?

That was the original meaning of "a family affair" --

Family values, keeping it in the family, move two letters in "incest" and get "nicest", and surely a few more.

Was Cain or Abel hermaphroditic? (The term "intersex" is now also used.)

I think the books that nicely sum up reasons why I don't believe in a god(s) are:

1) Atheism, The Case Against God (Smith)

2) The Impossibility of God

3) Atheism, A Philosophical Justification (Martin)

4) God, The Failed Hypothesis (Stenger)

And, The Portable Atheist has some good essays, imo, as well.

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