It almost seems like atheists don't want to believe in God. Do you just simply not want to believe in God because you don't want to give up your own free will?

ADMIN EDIT: Mercedes has left on her own accord. This discussion will remain, however do not expect a response from the author. 


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Everyone, please do refrain from name-calling. It's against the guidelines. (posting as Think Atheist admin)

Also, Mercedes has been deluged with responses so she may not be able to respond to everyone.

Hear, hear, this is a place of quiet contemplation and education (sometimes!)

We should be encouraging young people like Mercedes to come here and question us.  It might cause enough curiosity to put her on the first steps to questioning her faith, it might not, but the last thing we want is for people like her having what her pastor/priest said would happen confirmed.

We are good, fair and peaceful because we want to be, etc.

I believe she has said before that she is 25 years old, she is even older than me, so I don't really think she is as young and naive as you might she think she is. I can understand your confusion because her discussion style perceives her to be a lot younger than she is.

Actually, sometimes rather boisterous contemplation, but I suppose any kind of contemplation is better than none at all.

"Why do atheists ask for so much proof to believe in God?"

I am an atheist and I do not ask for proof of a God because I don't believe there is one. I don't think that any true atheist asks for proof, ever! We don't think there is anything so why would we need evidence to believe in something we are convinced doesn't exist? Free will only comes into the equation as a matter of being able to think for yourself and not have others dictate to you what you should do with your life under the threat of punishment.

Furthermore, I am in the field of robotics and artificial intelligence. I build robots that function and mimic human behaviour. So to apply your logic I am a GOD. I create things, they 'live', they even 'think', and they do my bidding. I would assume that if what you believe in is right, they will eventually 'worship' me and offer me prayers so I will provide them with the energy they need to live.

Let's turn the question around - do you go to the doctor or see a nurse when you are ill? Why? If you pray and there is that God of yours, s/he would surely make you better, no? Ok, I admit, this was a hard one - try this: If that God created all mankind and told them to love one another, why are you so against homosexuals? After all, they love each other and that is what God wanted, is it not?

No my dear friend. God is a convenient excuse for people to either cover their own misbehaviour (God told me to...) or to comfort when they feel fear (dark, alone, hearing noises), and sometimes to explain things to the simple minded that is too hard to explain (God made the Universe).

You can believe what you will. Atheists will never ask you why, because they know better...

I would slightly change your first assumption.  Rather than (or possibly in addition to) "not" asking for proof of a person's deity, I think it would be fair to say we are certainly willing to examine any proof presented that a deity is actually real.  The one caveat would be that we certainly expect extraordinary proof, since it is an extraordinary claim.

The problem is that the "proof" would have to rectify or counteract all the evidence that is currently against the concept of a god or gods (which is mammoth). 

Proof is only for math and logic. The issue is the absence of evidence for these gods of yours.

Atheists ask because there has never been an answer.


Mercedes, you ask why the Bible is not enough proof for us... For the same reasons that the holy books of other religions are not proof of those religions to you. You presumably don't think that the existence of the Egyptian Book of the Dead is proof of Horus, Set or the the multitude of other gods within. Why not? You probably don't believe that the Norse myths aren't proof of Odin, Thor, or the paradise of Valhalla. Why not? You could do the same dance with every religion. When you understand what you don't recognize all the other religions (ofter even older than Christianity) with holy books of their own, you will begin to see why the Bible is not proof of the god of the Bible.

You say that without God, we wouldn't have the Bible. But we could equally say that without the Bible, we wouldn't have that god on the table at all. Arguing that the Bible (which introduced God) is proof of God because it says it's the word of God is circular reasoning. By that 'logic' one is forced to accept every religion because 'it says it's true right here'. So anyone could theoretically write a book (the older the better ) that says that it is the word of Steve. Steve is a great guy that turns everything he touches into a book, and that the book you're reading used to be one of his socks. Therefor, Steve, the magic book man is real!

But it's not that easy in reality now is it? It would be silly to believe in magic Steve because a book says he is real, and is itself proof of his power. What is needed is proof that the book's claims are true. That is where the Bible fails spectacularly. There is the odd historical reference present, but there is far more in there that is historically false or evidenced. For the sake of streamlining the conversation, I won't even get in to the many absurdities present as well. The important fact is that the Bible is not actual first person historical accounts. Many of the books authorship is unknown, and most were recorded so far removed from the events they describe, that the authors could never have witnessed these events themselves. Without external confirming evidence, this leaves the texts as hearsay at best.

As for 'requiring too much evidence'. I actually don't require much proof. One undeniable piece of proof would be it for me. However, I've never seen, heard , or experienced any proof of God. And it's not from not wanting to. I was a believer for the longest time. My loss of faith was actually the result of me trying to prove that my faith was the real truth. I searched long and hard, prayed, dove into the Bible, etc. But the more I knew about my religion, the less plausible it looked. Eventually I had to be honest with myself and admit that I no longer believed. I didn't seek those ends, but here I am. At the end of the day, if happy of the way things ended up though. I learned so much, along the way and now have a much more fulfilling view on life than I ever had prior.

I hope that helps with your question.

I just had the most incredible dinner - baked pork chop, baked potato, and baked beans - and I suppose I should thank Jesus for driving those demons into the pigs, because I strongly suspect it was the demons that gave my dinner it's special flavor. Of course, it also could have been the Masterpiece Barbeque Sauce and garlic salt I added --

Another point of view. We are increasingly exposed to christianist infection into our national presence, through television (ceiling pointing athletes and the creeps who have to expose us to this crap) . Because of my beliefs I strongly dislike this, that someone who has beliefs of non-existent supernatural beings somehow should be allowed to foist their beliefs on me and mine. Who the hell gives fools like this the ok to try to infect others. Make no mistake, Christians are obligated to convert others. I do not want to be converted and I will act accordingly to what I believe is a threat to my freedom. christianists will do anything to impose their power over others, but we will not let them. Sorry if this is not nicely said, but it needs to be noted. Instead of replying to Mercedes innocent questions, demand that the christianists take their nonsense and go in the closet, as their leader demands. Get lost.

If you really think about it the concept of god is incoherent, it has meant so many different things to a vast number of people throughout human history. Their is not a single shred of evidence that believers have been able to show that such a force, inside or outside, of nature exists. "Free will" is just a convenient device used by the religious to explain away evil in the world. If evil exist the probability for god(s) is nil.


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