It almost seems like atheists don't want to believe in God. Do you just simply not want to believe in God because you don't want to give up your own free will?

ADMIN EDIT: Mercedes has left on her own accord. This discussion will remain, however do not expect a response from the author. 


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Mercedes, you ask why the Bible is not enough proof for us... For the same reasons that the holy books of other religions are not proof of those religions to you. You presumably don't think that the existence of the Egyptian Book of the Dead is proof of Horus, Set or the the multitude of other gods within. Why not? You probably don't believe that the Norse myths aren't proof of Odin, Thor, or the paradise of Valhalla. Why not? You could do the same dance with every religion. When you understand what you don't recognize all the other religions (ofter even older than Christianity) with holy books of their own, you will begin to see why the Bible is not proof of the god of the Bible.

You say that without God, we wouldn't have the Bible. But we could equally say that without the Bible, we wouldn't have that god on the table at all. Arguing that the Bible (which introduced God) is proof of God because it says it's the word of God is circular reasoning. By that 'logic' one is forced to accept every religion because 'it says it's true right here'. So anyone could theoretically write a book (the older the better ) that says that it is the word of Steve. Steve is a great guy that turns everything he touches into a book, and that the book you're reading used to be one of his socks. Therefor, Steve, the magic book man is real!

But it's not that easy in reality now is it? It would be silly to believe in magic Steve because a book says he is real, and is itself proof of his power. What is needed is proof that the book's claims are true. That is where the Bible fails spectacularly. There is the odd historical reference present, but there is far more in there that is historically false or evidenced. For the sake of streamlining the conversation, I won't even get in to the many absurdities present as well. The important fact is that the Bible is not actual first person historical accounts. Many of the books authorship is unknown, and most were recorded so far removed from the events they describe, that the authors could never have witnessed these events themselves. Without external confirming evidence, this leaves the texts as hearsay at best.

As for 'requiring too much evidence'. I actually don't require much proof. One undeniable piece of proof would be it for me. However, I've never seen, heard , or experienced any proof of God. And it's not from not wanting to. I was a believer for the longest time. My loss of faith was actually the result of me trying to prove that my faith was the real truth. I searched long and hard, prayed, dove into the Bible, etc. But the more I knew about my religion, the less plausible it looked. Eventually I had to be honest with myself and admit that I no longer believed. I didn't seek those ends, but here I am. At the end of the day, if happy of the way things ended up though. I learned so much, along the way and now have a much more fulfilling view on life than I ever had prior.

I hope that helps with your question.

I just had the most incredible dinner - baked pork chop, baked potato, and baked beans - and I suppose I should thank Jesus for driving those demons into the pigs, because I strongly suspect it was the demons that gave my dinner it's special flavor. Of course, it also could have been the Masterpiece Barbeque Sauce and garlic salt I added --

Another point of view. We are increasingly exposed to christianist infection into our national presence, through television (ceiling pointing athletes and the creeps who have to expose us to this crap) . Because of my beliefs I strongly dislike this, that someone who has beliefs of non-existent supernatural beings somehow should be allowed to foist their beliefs on me and mine. Who the hell gives fools like this the ok to try to infect others. Make no mistake, Christians are obligated to convert others. I do not want to be converted and I will act accordingly to what I believe is a threat to my freedom. christianists will do anything to impose their power over others, but we will not let them. Sorry if this is not nicely said, but it needs to be noted. Instead of replying to Mercedes innocent questions, demand that the christianists take their nonsense and go in the closet, as their leader demands. Get lost.

If you really think about it the concept of god is incoherent, it has meant so many different things to a vast number of people throughout human history. Their is not a single shred of evidence that believers have been able to show that such a force, inside or outside, of nature exists. "Free will" is just a convenient device used by the religious to explain away evil in the world. If evil exist the probability for god(s) is nil.

I've briefly scrolled through a few of these pages and it seems to me that the arguments are simply being repeated over and over. Mercedes, you don't seem to understand our arguments and are constantly pointing back to the bible when we are saying that the bible is a bunch of words on paper. 

What makes you think YOUR words on paper are more correct that any other words on paper? I want to know why you don't follow the Qu'Ran? Its prophet undoubtedly did exist. Why do you follow the bible instead of another holy text? What about Zeus? You are probably thinking, "Please, Zeus doesn't exist. How can she compare my mighty god to a fake story?" What you don't understand is that there is JUST AS MUCH evidence that Zeus is a god than there is evidence for the god of the bible. 

Men have been trying to prove the existence of god since the idea of god came into being. They haven't been able to. In modern times, we know a lot more than what we did centuries ago and what we know now contradicts what is said in your bible. A few simple facts such as the moon doesn't produce its own light but reflects the sun's light, the earth and humans are not the center of the universe but a small spec in a massive unending vastness, the earth wasn't created in 7 days 6000 years ago but is billions of years old, these all contradict the bible. This shows us that the bible was written by MEN and NOT GOD because if god wrote it there wouldn't be so many mistakes.

The Bible was written by man but that makes it authentic. It was their relationship with the living God the way they saw it. The reason it is true and not the Qu'Ran is because it points all to Jesus the Son of God. That is what I believe. I am reading through everyones comments but it is a lot of information. I do not understand all of it as English is hard for me sometime but I am reading it. I just can't understand all of it. I am here because I want to learn about other religions and views. But I understand if I am not welcome. I am thinking about going from here.

You are welcome here. Some people just have a harsher approach to these things. Holy shit, my autocomplete wanted me to say thingamajigs. People tend to forget that many of them here came from the same place you are at, and they think that if someone "doesn't get it" they are trolling or whatever.
You have to see their point as well, Mercedes, more often than not that is the case. We get so many theists here to convert us and tell us how we are going to hell. It tends to make people wary with new visitors.

It is nothing against you. You have done a fine job showing that you are here for yourself, not to harass us. You are welcome here, never worry about that.

Take all the time you need and ask as many questions as you want. English is not my first language either, I know how frustrating it can be.


Whatever you do DON'T DRINK THE KOOLADE it has cyanide in it.

I am curious why you keep coming back to drink at the fountain of truth, is it because you know in the deepest parts of your mind that something is fundamentally flawed with what you think you believe?

Mercedes your beliefs are not just wrong they are a delusion, please wake up and walk into the light of reason and me, you will be glad you did.

Gregg. :)

Milos is right, you are most welcome here - estas bienvenidos --


No ay de que, Mija --

Mercedes, RE: "The reason it is true and not the Qu'Ran is because it points all to Jesus the Son of God."

Several writers of the Bible predicted a man would be born who would raise up the Jewish people and deliver them from the various conquerors, the Greeks, the Assyrians, the Babylonians, and finally, the Romans, who had devastated their country for centuries. They predicted this great leader would be born in Bethlehem. But Yeshua (his real name, not Jesus), if he ever actually existed, was born in Nazareth, so when people wrote about him, 40 or 50 years later, they had to find a way to make it look like he had been born in Bethlehem, so they made up the story of a Roman census that required all of the male Jews to travel to the city of their birth, to be counted. The Romans never had such a census, it was all made up by the writers of the Bible who wanted to make it look like Yeshua was the promised Messiah.

Let me give you an example - John Kennedy was killed about fifty years ago - most of the people who have memories of Kennedy have died since then. It would be much easier for me to write a story now about Kennedy having magical powers to heal and perform other miracles, than it would have been then, when those alive who knew him could say I was lying. This is how the New Testament was written - only four books actually tell of Jesus, and no one knows who wrote any of them - how can you believe stories written by people who weren't even there at the time?

This is what we mean when we say you haven't studied the Bible - sure, you may have read it, but you haven't looked into the history of who wrote it and why.


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