Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by BadHandshakers on May 20, 2011 at 9:19pm

People change their minds all the time, even if their too pride to admit it right there and then. I for one have been largely persuaded and unhinged from previous misconceptions, simply, by having a friend dismissing the strawman's of the theory of evolution to me, I would show lots of gratitude to that person had we still been in touch.

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Permalink Reply by Linda on May 22, 2011 at 11:04am

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I'm here to try to get a sense of how other atheists are dealing with religious communities, and to try to figure out how to be true to myself without enraging people around me who have strong religious beliefs and nasty tempers.

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Permalink Reply by gabethedallasfan5 on May 22, 2011 at 11:11am

I was deconverted into atheism by talking to some on online forums (Mostly braindden.com/forum). It does work, actually, if the people involved have open minds.

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Permalink Reply by Patrick Thompson on May 22, 2011 at 11:36am

I believe it's worth arguing over and I also believe it's that kind of, "why argue? I believe in God, you don't...let's leave it that." (not saying the OP,  just in general) attitude that still has so many people following religion. Humans are extremely intelligent, but it doesn't do any good if the seeds of thought are not planted.

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Permalink Reply by Mark Danciger on May 22, 2011 at 1:49pm

I think that you are missing the point of these debates. We debate religion not (on the whole) to deconvert theists but to engage the logic and rationality that as atheists we posess in spades. Debating something that you believe strongly in is enjoyable and satisfying, particularly if your argument is strong, as much of the arguments against god are.

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Permalink Reply by Rosemary LYNDALL WEMM on May 22, 2011 at 3:59pm

People are swayed by internet arguments, discussions and debates, but rarely, if ever, during these events - unless the person has very little emotional investment in the outcome. 

While de-conversions from a religion are usually lengthy, conversions to religion, often occur in the space of a few minutes or hours.  Rational and emotional changes in beliefs and attitudes are very different processes.

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Permalink Reply by Mo Trauen on May 22, 2011 at 5:09pm

Theistic reasoning is so absurd that they RELY on our silence to keep up the pretense (in fact, they try to require it through various forms of bullying).  If we don't speak up, we are complicit in the pretense and the bullying.

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Permalink Reply by David Brown on May 24, 2011 at 4:41am

Thanks Mo - I love oxymorons and yours - "Theistic Reasoning" has now replaced "Holy Jihad" as my favourite.

Cheers.

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Permalink Reply by T A A on May 24, 2011 at 1:11pm

Yes nice oxymoron indeed, just like "freedom of religion".

However I'm curious why you would call "Holy Jihad" an oxymoron, they are quite appropriate together, not contradictory at all? "Holy Jihad" is more like a pleonasm... So in this way you get to have two favourites: a favourite oxymoron and a favourite pleonasm :)

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Permalink Reply by Bob Muller on May 22, 2011 at 8:14pm

I think we need to define "argument" to address the question at hand. If we mean an exchange of ideas or evidence between parties of differing stands on a topic, then yes, I think it is worth it. The theist gets exposed to ideas and facts that may have been hidden from them by family and friends, and the nontheist gets a look into the arguments that are the keystones of personal beliefs. Both sides have the ability to share and receive information, and that is always a good thing. I know that understanding the misunderstandings of theists helps me focus my future discussions for ever-greater effectiveness. I have had these sorts of exchanges with very entrenched religious friends of mine and they have learned from it (as have I). In fact, one of them often comes to me with questions related to science, and even religion, because he understands and respects my standards for research and for judging assertions.

 

If we use the more colloquial definition of argument as a nasty, defensive exchange between two (or more people), then I agree: walk away.

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Permalink Reply by T A A on May 23, 2011 at 12:02am

The OP is not why we're on this site, but why do people argue with believers :)

 

The whole point of faith is that it does NOT need to obey the laws of logic. Faith and belief are outside the realm of rationality. THAT is why in my view arguing with "them" is useless. And on top of that, for some atheists, the meaning of atheist is limited to stating "there is no god" whereas for others, including myself, as an atheist I reject any supernatural AND religions, including so-called "philosophical religions", which includes Buddhism and Humanism.

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Permalink Reply by Atheist Exile on May 22, 2011 at 9:18pm

As the great Dr. Gregory House quipped: "If you could reason with religious people, there wouldn't be any religious people."

For me, the reason for continuing to try to persuade believers of their error is the hope that my words -- along with all the other atheist arguments they've heard -- will eventually soak in and penetrate their compartmentalized minds.  Then one day, whey they're vulnerable, they'll finally take an honest look at their faith and realize we were right all along.

I've never witnessed a de-conversion but I know they happen all the time.  On that basis, I believe that espousing atheist views is worthwhile and contributes to the long-term mental health of humanity.

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