Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Trevor on October 23, 2011 at 7:28pm

Hi Aimee,

 

Thanks for your reply.  I do see your point as I did say at the start that I am a Christian and so I guess most would tailor the discussion to that end.  That was kind of self defeating on my part, I wanted to be honest and upfront about that, while I was thinking in the categories of theism and atheism.  So point taken.

 

I would say though that its a bit unrealistic to say that athiests do not have presuppositions as everyone does.  Post modernism has got a lot of things wrong, but that we come to nothing completely objectively - it got right.  Our childhood, feelings, experiences, the soap opras we have watched etc, all make objectivity difficult.  So it wasn't meant to be a slight on athiests, I didn't come wondering IF athiests have them, but what they are in the main.

 

I guess I am glad to be of service when it comes to helping you in some cathartic way! as you mention.  In some areas of the website that is dying down and I am able to have some discussion with people, which I appreciate.  I am not unaware that I am the guest and outsider here.  Hopefully, in a while I won't be the nasty chrisitan, but instead Trevor, here for a chat :-)

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Permalink Reply by Trevor on October 23, 2011 at 7:40pm

Aimee

 

I meant to mention that I am not unaware of what the Bible says, I did a degree in theology and read it daily.  I have obviously come to different conclusions to you though.  Its not the topic if the thread but just wanted to respond on that as you seemed to think I am unaware of Biblical content.

 

Trevor

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Permalink Reply by Aimee Eisiminger on October 23, 2011 at 8:27pm

Trevor,

I do not see you as "nasty" at all.  I do not wish you to believe that we are nasty either.  We are good people and I believe all people are good and want to do right by others for the most part.  I think we have our moments of selfishness and we have temporary lapses in judgment but for the most part I am an optimist with regard to individual human beings.  Now humans en mass, then I worry.  But that is another thought for another day.

 

You are welcome to chat any time and I am sorry my comments may have made you feel that outsider but you have to admit your ideas and your world view is in contradiction with the majority of the folks on this site.  So you would have to expect to hear some things that you might not like.  I applaud your bravery in coming here to inquire, as well as the time you are spending on this project.  

I realize you have a degree in theology and that is all well and good but I question your ability to look at the bible with a critical eye and still believe and follow it.  It is not a very nice read in many aspects and I will not point them all out here, as it has been done in other posts. It is a very mancentric, not to mention it does have some pretty serious contradictions as pointed out by some other folks here.

As far as presuppositions are concerned, I agree we all come with them, but I think your initial comment meant presuppositions about Christianity and not society as a whole.  Many of us here are pretty well read when it comes to the bible as well as our studies in world wide religions.  One of the primary reasons for this is that many of us came here after a long journey of searching for a belief system that fit our way of thinking and after shopping the cereal isle of available religions none seem to fit the bill. So many of us come to the conclusion of non-belief by having a fairly extensive understanding of world religions.  

But it does not stop here, I think that most of us also have a very hearty appetite for knowledge and the bible, I am afraid does not answer our questions.  

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Permalink Reply by Tex on October 24, 2011 at 5:48pm

Hey Trevor, we still love ya....after all we are all brothers an sisters here on planet earth, its just our ancestors that set us apart, and then there's that religious stuff..lol.

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Permalink Reply by Kris Feenstra on October 23, 2011 at 7:15pm

By the way, I purposefully didn't say Bible or Christianity in my original questions, I was talking theism as opposed to atheism.

 

You started the post stating that you were a Christian when you could have just as easily stated theist.  You also used 'God' as a proper noun, which makes it appear as if you are referencing a specific one.  (Actually, on rereading, I notice that you mixed it up oddly in the first question by capitalizing 'god' and using an indefinite article.  In the third question use it only as a proper noun).  In a number of English speaking regions, 'God' most commonly refers to the Abrahamic god, most notably as described by Christians.  The gods of other religions are typically described by their names.  Using the singular also excludes polytheism, so it doesn't really give the impression that you were referring to theism in general.  

 

It's not surprising that many people would interpret your questions as having a Christian bent.  As for talking about theism in general, that's unwieldy.  'Theism' is not a very cohesive grouping of beliefs.  Concepts of gods vary so dramatically, that simply stating 'God' in the most general sense is vague and not all that meaningful.  this is why many people asked for clarification.  It's possible that their answer may change depending on the definition of 'God'.

 

It is important to be clear with language in these conversations, especially in your position where you are pretty much guaranteed to get more responses than you can reasonably respond to.  If the question is muddled, you're either going to get muddled answers or numerous requests for clarification.

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Permalink Reply by Trevor on October 23, 2011 at 7:33pm

Kris, thanks.  Point taken.

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Permalink Reply by omar hesham on October 18, 2011 at 9:26pm

Take your shit elsewhere....

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Permalink Reply by Trevor on October 19, 2011 at 3:59am

Hi Omar

 

Sorry you feel that way.  It was never my intention to force my views on anyone I mainly wanted to learn more about why athiests think the way they do, and engage in discussion.   But I guess the posts are getting more and more along the lines of yours, Ninja chickens and all.  So I will comply with your request.

 

Thanks to everyone who did engage with me, it was helpful.

 

Trevor

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Permalink Reply by John Kelly on October 23, 2011 at 3:24pm

The only way there can be change for the better in a society is if people are encouraged to try to understand each other, and the most socially reprehensible and irresponsible thing you can ever do is discourage that in the few people who are cognitively developed enough to do it.

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Permalink Reply by Trevor on October 23, 2011 at 6:43pm

John

 

That might well be the most sane thing I have read on this website so far.  Thanks!

 

Trevor

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Permalink Reply by Henry Ruddle on October 18, 2011 at 9:41pm

Qn:  If there were two universes, one with an invisible ninja chicken fluent in French, and the other without, which one would you want to live in and why?

 

Qn:  If scientific theory began to support the existence of an invisible ninja chicken fluent in French (more than atheism) would you change your position (like Antony Flew)?

       Try really hard to avoid answers like: 'mmmm .... barbecued chicken would hit the spot right now.'

 

Qn:  Would you describe your position as "There definitely is no invisible ninja chicken fluent in French"  or "Naturalism does not need a French-speaking being and so an invisible ninja chicken fluent in French is improbable" or something else?

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Permalink Reply by omar hesham on October 18, 2011 at 9:44pm

hahaha dude, you are seriously hilarious

you just made my minute :D

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