"Where Are The Honest Atheists?"
I'm sorry if people are already talking about this -- I couldn't find a discussion.
So, I just read this article, "Where Are The Honest Atheists?" in which the author suggests that, while there's nothing wrong with being an atheist, we have to admit that it's a pretty bleak and inherently meaningless life we live. I tend to cringe when I see atheists claiming to know things that they can't possible know -- this guy seems to be presenting a more elaborate version of the old "If you don't believe in God, what stops you from committing murder?" He implies that only God can give a person intrinsic dignity or value or purpose or meaning.
If atheism is true, it is far from being good news. Learning that we're alone in the universe, that no one hears or answers our prayers, that humanity is entirely the product of random events, that we have no more intrinsic dignity than non-human and even non-animate clumps of matter, that we face certain annihilation in death, that our sufferings are ultimately pointless, that our lives and loves do not at all matter in a larger sense, that those who commit horrific evils and elude human punishment get away with their crimes scot free — all of this (and much more) is utterly tragic.
I do like some of the quotes he uses to prove his point, but I don't think they prove his point. They only demonstrate the courage and process it requires to embrace what's vast and unknowable.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Angela Evangelia on
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'I can't possibly believe there are over 600 varieties of actual evil in the world.'
I dunno ... Vlad the Impaler came close.
What could possibly cause a person to commit an act of evil?
What makes some people treat other people like objects?
What makes them not feel for the person they are doing it to?
We cant say that - some people do evil because they are evil. Thats not an answer.
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Permalink Reply by Simon Paynton on -
Serving their own needs over those of others.
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Permalink Reply by SteveInCO on -
But then on the other hand Vlad the Impaler was so ruthless to thieves and cheats visiting merchants didn't need to guard their wares overnight.
There is a story of one such visiting merchant discovering (against all expectations) that his money had been stolen. Vlad's men were able to recover the stolen lucre, but then the merchant discovered that there was one extra coin in the mix. He actually pointed that out, returning the coin. Then it developed that the whole thing had been a setup; Vlad had arranged for the theft--and the excess money returned--personally, and it was a test to see if the merchant was honest. Good thing he was; after all this was Vlad's realm he was in and Vlad hated the dishonest.
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Permalink Reply by Gallup's Mirror on -
If atheism is true, it is far from being good news.
How so? We get a lifetime of consciousness to appreciate the dazzling wonders of nature before closing our eyes forever. That sounds like a good deal to me.
Learning that we're alone in the universe,
Are we? The Curiosity rover may have something to say about that. How exciting!
that no one hears or answers our prayers,
It is a profound relief that no totalitarian sky-god knows what I am thinking and will punish me for it.
that humanity is entirely the product of random events,
Natural selection is not random.
that we have no more intrinsic dignity than non-human and even non-animate clumps of matter,
Why the need for intrinsic dignity? Why is man-made dignity not enough?
that we face certain annihilation in death,
Why wouldn't you take comfort in that? I never found the oblivion before my birth to be of any bother. Why would I mind the oblivion that follows my death?
that our sufferings are ultimately pointless,
Not to the person who is suffering.
that our lives and loves do not at all matter in a larger sense,
Why do they have to matter in the larger senses of eternity and the cosmos? Why can't a regular lifespan and the love you have within it be enough?
that those who commit horrific evils and elude human punishment get away with their crimes scot free
This is one reason I am against the death penalty, which is handed down with the words, "May God have mercy on your soul." The offender is granted a quick and painless exit from life without having to answer for his or her crimes.
all of this (and much more) is utterly tragic.
All of this was leading up to the non sequitur conclusion that the idea of a theistic universe is comforting (perhaps to the writer but not to me) which does not mean that it is true. So the writer uses an intellectually dishonest argument to ask atheists to be honest.
Priceless.
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Permalink Reply by Mabel on -
All of this was leading up to the non sequitur conclusion that the idea of a theistic universe is comforting (perhaps to the writer but not to me) which does not mean that it is true. So the writer uses an intellectually dishonest argument to ask atheists to be honest.
Priceless.
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Permalink Reply by Fritz on -
I can't stand when people say that it doesn't matter. In the grand scheme of things, no your tiny existence will not even make a ripple, but to you and the people around you what you do matters.
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Permalink Reply by Mabel on
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That's what I love about Think Atheist. I like learning about the different ways people look at subjects such as this. I learn things I never thought about before; things I realize are healthy to think about.
Attitude has a lot to do with how you are going to feel about your life while on your death bed and facing the great unknown. I want to have an attitude of thankfulness for all the good things about life and be thankful that suffering does not last forever as for the bad side of life. That's what I want to work on.
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Permalink Reply by archaeopteryx on -
You go, Girl --!
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Permalink Reply by Dennis Weaver on -
Flower!
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Permalink Reply by Real Life James Bond on -
Well it's just a matter of him not knowing what Atheism really is. Think of it like this given the God explaination (the earth and universe was created in 6 days) versus what science has shown us (the Big Bang) which one is truly more awe inspiring? I think the natural would is so much more majestic than what these religious zealots are making it out to be. As for the issue of morality look into Michael Martin he has written a book called "Atheism: A Philosophical Justification" and tackles some of the morality issues. One argument of his is that "if pessimism is supported by the evidence then we must be pessimistic. If we are optimistic when pessimism is justified, then we are irrational." I think what he is trying to get at is that these religious people are being irrational trying to call us pessimistic. Michael Martin is a good writer and I highly recommend his work to anyone on this site!
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Permalink Reply by Unseen on -
I'm always perplexed by religious folk who tell me that "Science takes all the wonder and mystery out of the universe." WTF! It's the religious people who have to have an answer and can't accept that there is no pat explanation for everything just yet.
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Permalink Reply by Real Life James Bond on
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Ir doesn't make a lot of sense to me either. I find great wonder in not knowing the explanation to things like the start of the universe. I would say that the great tragedy is how many people think Atheists are bleak people with no morality. Clearly they have never looked into the problem of evil.
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