Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Johnny on March 25, 2009 at 5:26pm

I don't usually use the Egyptians for the morality argument; but instead use them to refute that the 10 commandments are not original. Since many religious people think that all morals are based on the Bible, and specifically the 10 commandments, I suppose this could in-turn be used in morality arguments.

Check out the 42 negative confessions from the Egyptian Book of the Deak (or Google them), and compare them to the 10 commandments (or better yet, get a theist to compare them). You can pick-out everyone of the 10 commandments out of the 42 negative confessions.

If you can get a theist to concede that the Egyptians did it first, be sure to push that they they had more core laws; and that their laws were far better universal laws, especially compared to some of the crazy obscure things you can find in the Bible.

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Permalink Reply by Nelson on March 26, 2009 at 2:52am

careful with invoking The Negative Confessions as they weren't a codified ethical or moral law. they appear in abbreviated and often altered form on many Egyptian tombs and apparently what appeared on a person's tomb was only their personal ethic. in that case a knowledgeable Christian will object that that's not absolute morality of the type in the OT. there's also the fact that the Book of the Dead was edited several times from around 2400-1600 BCE and so provides another argument against absolutism and for a valid comparison.

i think you're better off going with Hammurabi's Code. it is preserved on a stone slab rather than on papyrus and dates to 1760 BCE. Hammurabi's Code predates the writing of the OT by a substantial margin- even if the Christian clings to Mosaic authorship of the Pentateuch that would date The Ten Commandments to around 1250 BCE, already almost 500 years after Hammurabi's Code. of course we know from textual criticism, source criticism, and archaeology that the oral stories that formed the OT didn't even begin until 1250 BCE while the OT wasn't fixed as we have it today until 450 BCE with changes being made during that time. finally, because it is preserved in stone we know that it wasn't changed after the time of it's writing. what we have is the original code.

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Permalink Reply by Dave G on March 26, 2009 at 10:01am

Dangit, Nelson, I was going to bring up Hammurabi's Code. :D

Hammurabi's Code is a good example of how laws can be successfully based on things other than biblical dictates.

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Permalink Reply by Johnny on March 26, 2009 at 11:13am

I think Nelson might be a god; he knows something about everything.

:P

Thanks for the extra knowledge. I do like the idea of citing the Book of the Dead for those still, but will keep in mind that it may not be as strong of an argument as I once thought.

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Permalink Reply by Pam on March 26, 2009 at 12:04pm

>I think Nelson might be a god; he knows something about everything.

Hah! I've had similar thoughts about him.

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Permalink Reply by Dave G on March 26, 2009 at 12:18pm

He also seems to be omni-present, at least on TA. :D

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Permalink Reply by Johnny on March 26, 2009 at 12:56pm

Agreed.

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Permalink Reply by Nelson on March 26, 2009 at 1:00pm

you guys are killing me. lol.
my secret: i read a lot, have a great memory, and i work from home so i can stop in and see what's going on from time to time or when i get an email notification of a new discussion or post.
there ya go. omnipresence and omniscience explained! :P

and Johnny, yeah, i like the book of the dead too and i've used it myself and will continue to. it's just good to have Hammurabi in yer back pocket. ;)

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Permalink Reply by Dave G on March 26, 2009 at 1:09pm

I wish I could work from home. I just manage to sneak in a peek at the site now and again from work.

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Permalink Reply by Pam on March 26, 2009 at 1:49pm

Same here Dave. Except lately I've had time to sneak all kinds of peeks.

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Permalink Reply by Dave G on March 27, 2009 at 10:57am

The last day or two have been good for peeking, true.