Notice that if you ask "When does life begin?" you get a definition, not a fact. What does this mean for the debate between pro-choicers and pro-lifers, one side defining life to begin at birth, the other at conception? Doesn't it mean that it's a problem without a solution?

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Mis Ash, why are you posting scientific studies and statistics? One of your links was to MSNBC, a mainstream media station. Have you not already stated that you don't believe what scientists say, all mainstream media and science is controlled by the evil government, and you base everything on your own opinions and common sense? You cannot have it both ways. When others post links for their arguments, you say it's all lies. But you are allowed to do the same thing to support your own points? That does not seem very fair. Actually, it sounds like theist circular logic.

It sounds like you're the one "cherry picking" here Misanthrope. First, you say that we shouldn't trust scientists, the government, or the media. Period. And now you're saying that you can pick and choose which medias are, let's say "pure" for lack of a better word, based strictly on what you believe and whether or not what they say coincides with what you say. Sounds rather biased if you ask me.

I'm sorry, dear, but just because you have an opinion or view that you are absolutely set on and there is no way for anyone to sway you to believe otherwise does not mean that your opinion is fact. If anything it just makes you yourself seem ignorant.

Don't be sorry my dear, unless you are apologizing for  turning what I said into a universal cosmic statement by ignoring the fact that I qualified it. I qualified it because I recognize there is an aberrant minority of men, mostly as the result of nasty divorces, who rail about men's rights. Believe me, this is not an issue with the majority of men.

Lol! The men's rights movement is a bad joke. It's made up of men who are horribly insecure, and has about as much basis in fact as the Xtian persecution complex. There may be thousands of men that disagree with Unseen, or myself for that matter, and they're entitled to their opinions. More power to them, but that doesn't affect my opinion.

Nobody said that pregnancy or birth are bad, but it's undeniable that they're onerous, painful, and have lifelong effects on a woman's body. A man can father hundreds of children and not even know it, if he's a particularly ignorant pig.

Pregnancy is a horrible thing when it is unwanted and/or when the mother is in no way ready mentally, physically, emotionally, and financially for a child.

Your talk of feminists, whiny wimps, stretch marks, and statements that pregnancy isn't that big of a deal shows that you really do not understand the arguments many of us have been leveling against you. If you don't want to abort great that's your choice and you should have that choice to make for yourself. To take that choice away from other women however can and does harm real people. Every woman should have access to information and contraceptives and reproductive health care so that they can make their own decisions about their own bodies hopefully with medical advice. I frankly don't care what other women choose to do but I can imagine scenarios in which I would want the option of abortion available to me to consider. I think it is you who needs to go talk to women who have made the choice to abort and truly try to understand the many reasons that cause an individual to abort.

For someone who doesn't trust scientists, you seem to quote scientific studies and site at your leisure... Or is this a case of "I only trust the ones I quote.. the scientists you quote, on the other hand, I don't trust"?

"Researchers at the school hooked up 200 married men and women to blood pressure monitors for 24 hours"

Just giving them a break from their kids was such a relief...

You make the assumption based on your personal experience that being pregnant isn't bad or that child birth isn't.. If you had a good experience then count yourself lucky. My wife, who worked in the OB/GYN and delivered more than her share of babies, can tell you any number of horror stories about women who've had it bad and have literally been on the edge of death-- that's even with all our technological advances in the field. She'll be the first to tell you that every single pregnancy is different.

My 2 grandmothers who've had 20 kids between them can also tell you that each and every one of theirs were different. So for you to say pregnancy isn't all bad, is a bit subjective and naive on your part. As my own mother once said-- "Don't assume that everyone else has had the same experience as you.." 

As long as you're female... you'll never see it from a man's perspective. Just like as long as I'm a male I will never truly see things from a woman's perspective. That's just how it is..

Now, I can support my wife (as I did) when she pushed out a being weighing the size of a small bowling ball. But I will never know what it's like. To be honest, after seeing her go through 54 hrs of labor, I really don't want to know..  

Imagine a wasp injecting its eggs into a caterpillar so that the eggs can hatch inside of it and consume it from the inside out. The wasp does not have to have the consent of the caterpillar to "impregnate" it. If the caterpillar was able to find a way to eject those eggs, could we fault it for doing so? Would we argue the parental rights of the wasp? No and no.

It doesn't "take two to tango." It can take one overpowering another. Besides, the "tango" doesn't imply consent to fertilization. A man can deposit his semen inside a napkin or a woman. Just because he happens to deposit it inside another human being does not give him a right to use her body as an incubator for his sperm. Sorry. He's got plenty to spare, and this sperm isn't more special because it happened to reach her egg. 

I don't really care how harsh this comparison sounds. I'm not going to be an unwilling participant like the caterpillar. If I don't want some little organism growing in my body, consuming my nutrients and destroying the integrity of my organs, I'm going to opt out of this little possession. I will not be the host of some dude's spawn if I don't want to be. He can find another body to use as his incubator.

I ask again, what gives anyone other than and outside of the pregnant woman ANY standing in her case? What presumption!

Good for you, for having an easy, safe pregnancy. I'm sure you know, however, that you're not the standard.

Kudos to you for choosing to birth them naturally - I guess - but that would not have been an option for my mother. My older brother was 10 lbs and broke her tailbone after 24 hours of labor. I was 10.5 lbs. My younger brother was a whopping 11 lbs. Her stomach was stretched to hell. Her abs were split, but we didn't find that out until she was in her forties and underwent a hysterectomy... which subsequently also included a bladder suspension and tummy tuck (which was hardly just for vanity). She can't even laugh without leaking. She had horrible nausea while pregnant, and she was HUGE (as one can imagine with 10+ lb babies).

Please don't think pregnancy is safe for everyone because it was safe for you. Everyone's body is different... not to mention the fact that labor is more dangerous for human females than any other mammal (because of our huge heads and small hips). It's actually quite dangerous, and the infant mortality rate in the U.S. is higher than many other first-world countries.

And you seem to be painting all women who don't want kids with a very broad brush. I don't want kids, but I'm not shy or timid. Am I afraid of childbirth? Hell yes, after witnessing what it did to my mother. Sorry, I'm not signing up for that mess, and I don't think I should be judged or called "paranoid" for not wanting to recreate the horrific experience my mother endured. The difference is that she wanted kids; I don't. Not even a little. So pregnancy is a dangerous transition into what, I feel, is a life of oppression. You think it's beautiful... fantastic! It's the least appealing thing I can think of, from start to finish.

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