Notice that if you ask "When does life begin?" you get a definition, not a fact. What does this mean for the debate between pro-choicers and pro-lifers, one side defining life to begin at birth, the other at conception? Doesn't it mean that it's a problem without a solution?
Misanthrope left Think Atheist, so there will probably be a lot of hanging comments.
I think you're overestimating how much men care about having children. There certainly are some, but the day when men lose sleep over whether they will have a male heir are gone. I have a daughter and I love her, but frankly at the time my wife became unexpectedly pregnant, it was up to her as far as I was concerned. Had I known how much bringing a child into the world would change our marriage, and how expensive it would be, along with other inconveniences (taking her to school events and swim meets, etc.), at the time I might have voted against it. I don't regret it now though.
It's the woman who gets gets stretch marks, hemorrhoids, loses her perky boobs, and who will likely be the one who has to make sacrifices along the way to rear the child. All that considered, it seems right to give the male a minority vote at best. Perhaps no more than the right he already has to inject his 2 cents.
Being pregnant is one of the riskiest things a woman can do. It's only because of modern medicine and technology that child birth is no longer the number one cause of death for women and that fewer women suffer from debilitating side effects.
There are many positives about having children for those who wish to have children and feel they are ready for them and can properly support them. For people who do not wish to have children and are not ready to support them children bring many negatives.
Mis Ash, why are you posting scientific studies and statistics? One of your links was to MSNBC, a mainstream media station. Have you not already stated that you don't believe what scientists say, all mainstream media and science is controlled by the evil government, and you base everything on your own opinions and common sense? You cannot have it both ways. When others post links for their arguments, you say it's all lies. But you are allowed to do the same thing to support your own points? That does not seem very fair. Actually, it sounds like theist circular logic.
It sounds like you're the one "cherry picking" here Misanthrope. First, you say that we shouldn't trust scientists, the government, or the media. Period. And now you're saying that you can pick and choose which medias are, let's say "pure" for lack of a better word, based strictly on what you believe and whether or not what they say coincides with what you say. Sounds rather biased if you ask me.
I'm sorry, dear, but just because you have an opinion or view that you are absolutely set on and there is no way for anyone to sway you to believe otherwise does not mean that your opinion is fact. If anything it just makes you yourself seem ignorant.
Don't be sorry my dear, unless you are apologizing for turning what I said into a universal cosmic statement by ignoring the fact that I qualified it. I qualified it because I recognize there is an aberrant minority of men, mostly as the result of nasty divorces, who rail about men's rights. Believe me, this is not an issue with the majority of men.
Lol! The men's rights movement is a bad joke. It's made up of men who are horribly insecure, and has about as much basis in fact as the Xtian persecution complex. There may be thousands of men that disagree with Unseen, or myself for that matter, and they're entitled to their opinions. More power to them, but that doesn't affect my opinion.
Nobody said that pregnancy or birth are bad, but it's undeniable that they're onerous, painful, and have lifelong effects on a woman's body. A man can father hundreds of children and not even know it, if he's a particularly ignorant pig.
Pregnancy is a horrible thing when it is unwanted and/or when the mother is in no way ready mentally, physically, emotionally, and financially for a child.
Your talk of feminists, whiny wimps, stretch marks, and statements that pregnancy isn't that big of a deal shows that you really do not understand the arguments many of us have been leveling against you. If you don't want to abort great that's your choice and you should have that choice to make for yourself. To take that choice away from other women however can and does harm real people. Every woman should have access to information and contraceptives and reproductive health care so that they can make their own decisions about their own bodies hopefully with medical advice. I frankly don't care what other women choose to do but I can imagine scenarios in which I would want the option of abortion available to me to consider. I think it is you who needs to go talk to women who have made the choice to abort and truly try to understand the many reasons that cause an individual to abort.
For someone who doesn't trust scientists, you seem to quote scientific studies and site at your leisure... Or is this a case of "I only trust the ones I quote.. the scientists you quote, on the other hand, I don't trust"?
"Researchers at the school hooked up 200 married men and women to blood pressure monitors for 24 hours"
Just giving them a break from their kids was such a relief...
You make the assumption based on your personal experience that being pregnant isn't bad or that child birth isn't.. If you had a good experience then count yourself lucky. My wife, who worked in the OB/GYN and delivered more than her share of babies, can tell you any number of horror stories about women who've had it bad and have literally been on the edge of death-- that's even with all our technological advances in the field. She'll be the first to tell you that every single pregnancy is different.
My 2 grandmothers who've had 20 kids between them can also tell you that each and every one of theirs were different. So for you to say pregnancy isn't all bad, is a bit subjective and naive on your part. As my own mother once said-- "Don't assume that everyone else has had the same experience as you.."
Men's Rights Movement? Yeah, I've heard of that. I've seen nothing of value come from it. If you are seriously advocating that crap and being sincere, I can't take you seriously.