Notice that if you ask "When does life begin?" you get a definition, not a fact. What does this mean for the debate between pro-choicers and pro-lifers, one side defining life to begin at birth, the other at conception? Doesn't it mean that it's a problem without a solution?

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It's just a Monty Python reference.

"We are living on the only planet in the whole universe that has life on it as far as we currently know."

Dare I point out... that's science. For a self-professed anti-science person you sure love to use examples from it and quote famous scientists, 

My gerbil ate its babies. What a good mother! Those animals sure can teach us a lot about caring for our young!

And in that case, possibly nutrition.

Yeah, in her defense, she was preggo when we got her but we didn't know. We didn't exactly treat her like a pregnant lady, so that might've been traumatic. She was never very nice though. Cute, but mean... murderously mean. ha!

Ate it's own babies?!?

Must be an atheist gerbil . . .

So where exactly Does a man have a right in all of this?

He doesn't. Having said that, if you get your long term, trusted, partner pregnant, she will generally be nice and let you influence her decision.

The man should have just as much right in the matter as a women.

I agree, have a look around the site and you should find a few threads on this very matter. Interesting arguments ensued.

I guess definition because it's sure not a fact.  If doctors claim a person dies when a heart stops beating, then we've resurrected millions of people.  We still don't know for a fact when life begins NOR when it ends.  Perhaps doctors should spend a week trying to revive a single human being because we don't know for a fact whether or not that person is dead?  That'd be ludicrous.  Are they giving up too soon and indirectly letting them die?  Doctors and scientists are split, subjectively as opposed to objectively, when life begins and ends.  A significant number pregnancies end in miscarriage within the first trimester anyways, so it's as if after the first three months we have much more certainty whether or not the fetus will survive.

I also wonder why we continue to perpetuate these ridiculous labels like "pro-life" and "pro-choice" as if some how we are either anti-life or anti-choice - these are all P.R. strategies that we've come to accept and shouldn't.  If we can call a fertilized egg human life, why can't we call sperm and eggs human life?  I just killed millions of bacterial life just by typing this comment and breathing.  Why can't we call the issue of abortion pro-slavery anti-slavery?  I mean, there are so many different labels we can give it.

I like those terms.

I'd also propose pro-woman and anti-woman.

I agree with you on the pro-woman, anti-woman. As Jon Stewart once said on The Daily Show, when he posted a picture of all the people arguing that abortion should be illegal... "This picture looks like the Who's Who of.....Who's Not Female....."

The main people pushing to criminalize abortion are the "Religious Right". A bunch of ultra-conservative, fundamentalist, Chrsitian MEN. I, as a man, have absolutely no right to force a woman to have an abortion. Nor can I force a woman to take birth control, or not take birth control, or anything else to do with her body. And I agree with several people really don't care all that much. Unless a man is in an extremely serious relationship with a woman he is deeply in love with, this is what he thinks when she says "I'm pregnant."

Oh shit. $$$$. So much for that car I was saving up for. Crap, now if we split up, she gets a quarter of my income, and she will probably just keep the money and make her own parents raise the kid....shit.

You have no idea how much sulking my girlfriend gave me when I told her I don't ever want kids. She loves children, and I kept mumbling on about how annoying children are and when I turned my head to her (I was watching something) I saw her with that "What the hell, no kids??" look on her face. Now she slowly started to accept it and I hope she'll be over it soon.

Damn, hearing "I'm pregnant" would probably scare my heart into a skip. Children are cute as long as they belong to other people and you're exposed to them for very short periods of time, like 5 or 10 minutes max. But being a father myself would be a nightmare! Imagine the pregnancy.. urgh..

I have a 3 year old son. If you actually wanted that question answered. And I love him to death. I never wanted to have children, and my son was not planned. I do not regret it. On the other hand, the next time his mother became pregnant, we aborted. Which I also do not regret, nor does she. After going through a pregnancy, childbirth, and a year of raising a baby, going to work exhausted because he cried all night, baby-proofing my house, paying baby-sitters, not being able to do anything we wanted to do most of the time, was not even a question. As soon as the doctor said she was pregnant, she burst into tears and I started looking for the number to an abortion clinic.

Also, I have every intention of getting "snipped" very soon. This year. And I wish that all men who did not want to have children would do the same. Every life is not sacred. A lot of these babies grow to be leaches on society and live off my tax money and commit crimes. I wish they had all been aborted. People make the argument "That baby may have been the one to find the cure for cancer". And other ignorant arguments, we have all heard them. That baby could also have been the next Hitler, or a child rapist. Human life can become something that should be protected, depening on what you do with your life. If someone is making amazing scientific breakthroughs, or is making millions of dollars and using it in positive ways, or even just working their ass off to support their family and pay their taxes....I would say that their lives are important and worth preotecting. Someone who is fully able to work but instead lives off welfare, WIC, unemployment, etc.....I would not consider it a crime if they were "aborted" at the age of thirty. It would pain me more to see someone shoot a loyal dog than a useless person.


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