Notice that if you ask "When does life begin?" you get a definition, not a fact. What does this mean for the debate between pro-choicers and pro-lifers, one side defining life to begin at birth, the other at conception? Doesn't it mean that it's a problem without a solution?

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No one blindly trusts science. Science is the best method we have for discerning reality and discovering truth. The scientific method has been demonstrated to be the best method for obtaining the truth about anything.

Science is also verifiable. You don't have to trust it blindly, just go verify it.

It is also self policing. The greatest thing a person in the sciences can do is disprove another persons theory.

When life begins may not be something that can be answered. There are various ideas of when life begins. Some say it begins when a baby is able to feel, some say when it can live on its own, and some say once the sperm fertilizes the egg.

This really isn't the question that should be asked in the context of this issue. The question that should be asked is what is the criteria for qualifying as a person endowed with rights? This is something that, absent the presence of illogical emotions, we can answer using reason. I think you will be hard pressed to find someone who feels that a blastocyst should be endowed with the same rights as you or I.

I could be wrong though.

Based on your previous posts I really should end my part of the discussion here. I will only continue if you are capable of acknowledging the fallibility principle. If not, my responses and everyone else's responses to your posts are pointless and you do not truly care about the truth or logic..

Galileo - wasn't battling science, but religion. 

Newton - Also wasn't battling science, but expanding it. 

Einstein - Thought so far outside of the box, he rearranged. Therefore presented new and far-reaching concepts which were unheard of prior. Also was not battling science, but expanding it. In fact he built off some of Newton's ideas. 

Riemann - Was a mathematician not a scientist per se. Though the Riemann-Roch theroem did allow for scientific advancements. 


Johannes Kepler - mathematician and astrologer who's discoveries about planetary motion helped lead the way later for people such as Newton and Einstein. He was also a contemporary of Galileo. 

Copernicus -- As with Galileo battled against the religious concept of an Earth-centric solar system. He was the first to propose that the Earth revolved around the sun and not the other way around. 

So no true battles against science, but of religious doctrine. Which as we know, isn't truly science.
 

Religion and science are not the same thing by any stretch.

Religion is dogma based on faith.

Science on the other hand is based on observation and repetitive testing and peer review. 

It's just that simple.

Now the religious have attempted to hold back scientific progress for centuries. Galileo's experience with the Church is a prime example of that.  Why is that? Because it caused people to question faith and when they question faith, they question religion. We can't have people questioning religion, now, can we? At least not if we intend on using religion to control them. 

Btw, C&P'ing huge blocks of text like that really dissuades people from reading what you have to say. 

How does the Vatican control science today?  What say does it have over secular journals and secular universities?

Misanthrope that is pure babble.  The market controls science these days, not the government.  There are plenty of special interests besides the Vatican and the governement who have money.  I am well aware of politics. It was rather ridiculous of you to bring in American right and Left politics into a discussion about the Vatican.  Absurd...  You have your head in the right and left.  I am an aristocratist and I don't give a crap about it.

It seems you know nothing about education or research.

The government encourages certain types of research that help its interest, not all, and you can't provide a shred of evidence that proves otherwise.  However, most research done in the world is not influenced in this way.   You just don't seem to know anything about science or research. 

There are so many journals, so many studies and so many universities that that neither the government nor the Vatican can control them all.  If you actually looked at all the studies done over the past year alone, you would drop this nonsensical position of ignorance.

Isn't that just what the Vatican wants you to believe though?  If as you say they control what is researched in every university in the world because all grant money only ever comes from nobody other than the Vatican, then how can you trust history?

Wouldn't the Vatican have had its hands all over that too?

Scientists have no answer and neither do religious people, because when life begins is a stipulation or definition. Once you have the definition, which comes first, THEN you look for facts.

This is why it will be a neverending argument, unless/until 100% of the people adopt the same definition. And that's not going to happen.

"Science does not know everything"

That's a good thing, and one of science's strengths. You're not trying to assert the fallacy that "science does not know everything" = "science does not know anything" are you?

“In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual.”

Nice quote... You are saying that the decision to abort should be left with the parents, and should only be made after much humble reasoning.


right?

The funny thing is, you neither understood Matt's question, nor Galileo's quote that you gave.

Mis & John

Cool it with the personal attacks. Disengage if you can't engage civilly. I think Kris has already pointed everyone to the Think Atheist guidelines. We simply don't tolerate people calling each other "idiots", etc... please stop, and then check out the guidelines that have already been linked to. They're about under the "About" tab.

Well then please report that when it happens. That's no excuse for you to do the same. I am forgiving you once hence giving you a warning. Please let that be the last time. Thank you.

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