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Permalink Reply by archaeopteryx on August 6, 2012 at 10:33pm

Tom - I've recently read Dian Fossey's Gorillas in the Mist, and her biography, Woman in the Mist, by Farley Mowat, and I was left with a feeling - unsupportable, admittedly - that I was looking at us, several million years ago, in which case, I'd have to agree with you completely, that struggles for tribal leadership, which translate to struggles for mates and the better portions of food, probably superseded any consideration of a god.

I'm sure that the gorillas fear lightening and thunder, but likely don't attribute them to any creature living in the sky, as, as far as they're concerned, the world they live in, is the only world there is.

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Permalink Reply by Gina Weston on August 13, 2012 at 4:48pm

I can tell you from experience and interaction with people (In southern states) that people follow blindly. When you tell them horrible facts from the bible they just ignore it saying, "You're exaggerating!" "You're lying!" And even when I point to these verses in the bible they say, "We weren't meant to take THOSE VERSES seriously." 

It's a delusion. They will come up with any realization to prove that this is the TRUE RELIGION for them. And it's not always children Indoctrination that creates this delusion. I see people convert to Christianity. It's always because "they want to be a better person." To me it looks like guilt. Guilt they want to desperately get rid of.

Also, it seems to be a social disorder. They NEED to fit in. And of course, they turn to religion. And which religion is well known in the southern states? Christianity.

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Permalink Reply by David Conrad on August 13, 2012 at 5:16pm

I know this thread is a year old, but I have a relevant prediction:

The atheist movement will eventually crystallize around two main camps: the harsher, more militant side that currently dominates the movement, and a more peaceful, ingratiating side that will win more support from the public at large.  I consider myself part of the latter group, which I predict will grow in size as more lifelong atheists such as myself become active in the movement.  The former group will remain attractive to born-again atheists who have left various religions.  Both groups will be necessary for atheism to receive greater acceptance and to secure a more public role.

I predict this because such was the dynamic that characterized most of the great rights movements of the past century, including the women's suffrage movement and the black civil rights movement.  At present I believe the militants are blazing the trail, and I give them credit for that, but I look forward to the rise of a calmer, less abrasive mode of communication with theists, because that approach that will ultimately win more support.

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Permalink Reply by Tom Sarbeck on August 13, 2012 at 5:51pm

David, you've stated it well, except that in place of the word "ingratiating".I would have used a word that suggests diplomacy.

Sociological research on small groups tells us the noisiest people in a group dominate it, and the noisy atheists dominate the atheist scene. They perform a function like that of the first wave assault troops who lead seaborne invasions and suffer the greatest losses. The second wave troops take fewer casualties and keep the ground the assault troops took.

I see religion as a crutch that lets an ankle sprain heal, except that a few people do all they can to keep people on crutches so they can take their money and self-esteem.

A danger to me is that crutch-dependent people tend to support their leaders' efforts to make me use crutches. I'm an activist in resisting those efforts.

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Permalink Reply by David Conrad on August 13, 2012 at 5:54pm

Sociological research on small groups tells us the noisiest people in a group dominate it, and the noisy atheists dominate the atheist scene. They perform a function like that of the first wave assault troops who lead seaborne invasions and suffer the greatest losses. The second wave troops take fewer casualties and keep the ground the assault troops took.

I like that analogy.  We'll continue to work together to storm the beaches of religion. :)

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Permalink Reply by James Cox on August 14, 2012 at 12:25am

Atleast no one is suggesting an air strike, or coastal shelling, before the first wave.

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Permalink Reply by Tom Sarbeck on August 14, 2012 at 3:01am

Great reply, James. Humor will help us win.

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Permalink Reply by James Cox on August 14, 2012 at 12:29pm

Do you think HLS is listening in?

I don't know if TA has a only a short or very long list of 'nerds'. I have known my share of scary 'nerds'.

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Permalink Reply by archaeopteryx on August 13, 2012 at 7:37pm

Agreed, David. In fact, I prefer not to attack religious poeple for their beliefs, as most people identify so strongly with their belief system, that to attack it, is to attack them personally, and that convinces no one. I prefer instead, to attack the validity of the Bible and the Quran and explode their myths, which allows the religious at least the opportunity to rethink their positions.

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Permalink Reply by Andrew on August 13, 2012 at 11:47pm

It certainly is a sad state of affairs. I too had someone think I was joking when I told them I was an atheist. 

I think it would help to have some mainstream movies or tv shows with atheist protagonists that people can relate to. Not movies about atheists/atheism, just involving them. Just to acclimate the world to our existence. 

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Permalink Reply by David Conrad on August 14, 2012 at 7:41pm

There's a lot to be said on the topic of religion in Star Trek (my favorite TV franchise), and some embarrassing moments on the issue in its long history, but there have been episodes throughout the years that I can confidently say are pro-atheist and anti-religion in varying degrees.

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Permalink Reply by archaeopteryx on August 14, 2012 at 8:23pm

"Who Mourns for Apollo?" and what's the other one?

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