Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Tom Sarbeck on May 7, 2012 at 1:47am

Tom, methinks Europe's centuries of religious warfare account for the higher % of agnostics and atheists there. They learned.

America won't have religious warfare like Europe's because we get rid of presidents after four or eight years.

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Permalink Reply by Tom Margolis on May 7, 2012 at 5:48am

> They learned.

Who is "they"? Babies aren't born with the lessons of history hard-wired into their brains. And the Middle East has had "centuries of religious warfare" and has a very low % of atheists.

You're positing a causal relationship with no control group, no evidence.  If the U.S. had lots of atheists, you could say "It's because separation of church and state is codified in our laws." If Europe had few atheists, you could say "It's because years of religious warfare have made people defensive and reactionary about their beliefs."  Your hypothesis sounds nice but is arbitrary - you basically picked a reason that feels good, without thinking about falsifiability or comparative social history (e.g. the Middle East).

On the other hand, falsifiable evidence from neuropsychology and anthropology clearly show that magical thinking is natural to humans.  Most people are born as magical thinkers, and will continue to think as such throughout their lives unless taught otherwise (and some never learn how to think rationally anyway).

I gotta say, all the comments on this site about how believers are stupid or lazy or scared reflects an embarrassing ignorance of human neuropsychology and cognitive bias, the real roots of magical thinking.

If you want to learn a bit about cognitive bias and the roots of magical thinking, see here:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases

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Permalink Reply by the Jumping Atheist on May 13, 2012 at 3:31pm

I think with the advent of the inernet, people who question religion will now have a huge resource to find that they are not alone, 25 years ago, where could you go? It's only a matter of time, perhaps 40 or 50 years away when believers are in the minority.

It will happen, religion dedest knowledge.

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Permalink Reply by Joseph Claustro on June 1, 2012 at 4:00am

hi there. here in the philippines which is a pre-dominantly catholic country, most people have never read the bible. or some might have read it but never really understand what it says. that's the main problem here in our country. most people rely on blind faith and never really bother to search for the truth. they find comfort in their religion. specially those who are desperate for help, like those with terminal illnesses. religion is taught at the first instance of comprehension here so "faith" is indoctrinated at a very early age which guarantees deep roots. Atheism is taught here as the work of the devil or something really really bad. Guilt is often used to discourage people from thinking out of the theist's box. so as to your question, i think it will still be a very long time before people understand  what the atheists' believe. Although I am very optimistic that with the development of technologies which expose more people to other schools of thought, the answer to your question can be seen in our lifetime.

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Permalink Reply by Jason Ward on June 4, 2012 at 8:57am

The people you are chatting with are what I would refer to as convenient Christians since it is a matter of convenience that they refer to themselves as such so as to "fit". Convenient Christians don't understand atheists or atheism because they don't understand the doctrine by which they label themselves having never actually sat and read it nor would most understand it were they to do so. They require a mediator in the same way I require a mediator to understand physics. The problem for them is that the mediatior for the faith they claim to believe in only speaks of the positive narrative of the faith and often in his own words thereby cleaning it up to sound as cozy as possible. And that thier parents, siblings and friends all claim to follow the same faith so there is a sort of club mentality in which questioning one person in the club is to question all members. Peer pressure is a powerful thing. These folks know that for you to question the belief they claim to ally themselves with is to challenge not just them but the entire group, so you and they both know you are outnumbered. Just remember that facts don't care who's side you are on and that the veneer these individuals are wearing is quite thin and remarkably sensitive. Keep poking at it, you'll see.

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Permalink Reply by mick herman on June 6, 2012 at 3:29pm

Egocentrism; the belief that your views are everyone else's and that they chose not to believe in god and commit evil. I have in the past been called a "satanist" and a "pagan" i tried to explain atheism to these people but they were devout muslims, fortunately all of my friends when i was in school were smart and understood what an atheist was, even if they weren't

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Permalink Reply by Tom Sarbeck on June 10, 2012 at 7:23pm

When do you think people will finally start to understand atheism?

Has anyone here pointed out that "people" (a too-generic term) will understand atheism when an asymptote (a line that continually approaches a given curve but does not meet it at any finite distance) reaches that curve?

Or, choose any direction you wish and travel in that direction until you reach the horizon. Take a few lunches with you.

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Permalink Reply by Ian Milligan on June 11, 2012 at 8:28am

People seem to cherish ignorance in certain subjects. It seems to mean that they don't need to defend their knowledge because they have none! It IS belief after all.

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Permalink Reply by Sean O' Byrne on June 11, 2012 at 9:52am

I think people will only really understand atheism when we, as in all the atheist, become more active in voicing our ideas and show were not what religious perceive us to be. In the US around 10% of the population are atheist yet no there is no representation in politics, etc. I think atheists need to come together more and raise the issue of intolerance towards us. Once this begins to happen I think more people will 'come out' and it will become a lot more acceptable to be atheistic. 

And on Christians reading the bible I think very few of them do. I was brought up a Christian in a family of 6 and I am the only one yet to have read it and my family don't believe that I have either. Even yesterday we were arguing about religion and my mother was laughing at me about it. She also has the opinion that I do believe in God and that I'm trying to convince myself that I don't just 'to be different'. 

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Permalink Reply by Tom Holm on June 11, 2012 at 11:46am

I'm with you on us atheist being more vocal but some are afraid of losing family and friends,or their jobs or reputation. I for one could care less about losing friends, and my family will get over their feelings, but like I said its my job that I really need. This stigma that atheist are bad people really needs to be lifted in order for us to be accepted and for more of us to be able to come out and break free of the chains of religion

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Permalink Reply by Sean O' Byrne on June 11, 2012 at 1:56pm

Ya, it's a real catch 22, people's gullibility and lack of common sense really become evident when it comes to idea's about atheist. And the intolerance of some people is despicable, I'm lucky enough that most of the people I work with are atheists, and those who aren't are very open to. 

I cannot wait until the day someone takes a law suit for unfair dismissal for being an atheist. Will be a great day! 

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Permalink Reply by archaeopteryx on June 11, 2012 at 6:33pm

Ghost, they believe because they were indoctrinated as children by people they trust. They know those people wouldn't normally, deliberately lie to them, so they swallow it all, hook, line and sinker. What they never stop to think about, is that those who indoctrinated them, were similarly indoctrinated when THEY were children, and so it goes --

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