Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by archaeopteryx on June 11, 2012 at 6:33pm

Ghost, they believe because they were indoctrinated as children by people they trust. They know those people wouldn't normally, deliberately lie to them, so they swallow it all, hook, line and sinker. What they never stop to think about, is that those who indoctrinated them, were similarly indoctrinated when THEY were children, and so it goes --

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Permalink Reply by James Cox on June 11, 2012 at 10:54pm

Dear Folks:

We could just consider atheism on parr with calculus, or quantum mechanics. If you study deeply and well, new insights are found and your personal perspective grows. You could consider theism as the 'doggy and horseys' version of enlightenment, but if your lucky and walk into the back alley, where the light is better, the truely wonderful stuff trashes your personal vanity, and kills the childish metaphors. It is unclear if the 'sleeper has awakened', but it might be a close second.... 

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Permalink Reply by Charlie Sellers on July 9, 2012 at 9:50am

I had the same issue arise recently with my own mom. I told her before, but I have to keep telling her that I am an atheist. She thought - and personally still think - that she thinks atheism is devil worship. She doesn't care what I believe - not that it would matter anyways - and I am fine with that.

The general consensus is so lazy to look anything up for themselves, that I am thoroughly convinced that I could convince somebody that the sky is actually orange and appears blue only to us (provided I caught them on a good day, probably after that said person came out of a revival service). Once people get over their laziness, maybe then we can better explain ourselves.

So far as discussing the matter with people, if I attempt to discuss anything with anyone who hasn't taken the prior time to research an issue out for themselves, I am immediately annoyed and offended with the individual. It is rude and discourteous to put on a facade of being educated, and to try and initiate a discussion because they saw a single video or read a singular article or quip somewhere. And everybody should know damn well what I am talking about. The quips like "God doesn't believe in people who don't believe in him.", or "Why, this nation was founded on Christian virtues.", and "You can't explain why I am a human and monkeys are still around.". Those are the ones I selected living in the Bible Belt my entire life, having heard them every five minutes.

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Permalink Reply by Tom Margolis on July 16, 2012 at 10:01am

General observation: It seems that many atheists - including many on this site - are motivated by an anti-religion perspective rather than by a critique of the belief in supernatural forces in general.  In other words:  Many atheists spend time (validly) criticizing the Christian Bible, as if the Bible's invalidity supports atheism.  But deep atheism is unrelated to a given religion; deep atheism is simply the recognition that supernatural forces are mythical - with no reference to any particular religious structure. 

This may reflect the fact that many atheists became so due to dissatisfaction/disgust with their particular religion:  They moved *away* from religion, rather than moving *towards* rationalism.  I believe that the Earth is round not because claims that it is flat are internally contradictory; I believe so because of the overwhelming evidence of the Earth's roundness.

I think it's valuable for us to be conscious of the roots of our atheism.  Are you an atheist because a particular religion seems absurd, or because of the evidence for a godless universe?

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Permalink Reply by James Cox on July 16, 2012 at 11:48am

I would like to add one more measure: experience dealing with believers.

My catholic childhood allowed me to look into some of the beliefs of the church, how people promote the ideology, how they model the teachings, and how they relate to the larger culture. Sadly as a young nerd and as an adult, I was not able to join that fellowship with good conscience. Even applying the teachings, seem to contradict teachings. So much had to be given up, even the tools that 'God' was asserted to have given us. At some point, it seemed that even 'reality' needed to be given up because the acts of 'God' would denign any stable perception of 'reality'. Inadvertently, they seemed to have opened the doors to chaos.

As I studied, it seemed to imply that reality was much more stable, vast, and mysterious that the church let on. The Earth, to them seemed to be the center of the universe, but in my understanding, was hardly more than a speck orbiting a small star, in a vast sea of stars. My even basic studies in geology, with fossil collecting, seemed to imply a vast expanse of deep time, with church dogma hardly scraching the surface of it. The bible not even recognizing that depth of eternity. Over time, it seemed clear that the church has hands that are not up to the task of understanding much of anything, it reaches, but hardly grasps. Believers, so bent on promotion, and prostration, caught in the church bubble, that they seem to not recognize the inadequacy if it. I remember a minister telling me at a wedding, 'we put away childish things as we mature'. Some of us are stuck with tinker toys, others mature to telescopes, and questions!

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Permalink Reply by archaeopteryx on July 16, 2012 at 2:08pm

Good point, Tom.

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Permalink Reply by Tom Sarbeck on July 16, 2012 at 6:14pm

Tom, that's a valid general observation. There are generalists and specialists. I will try to specialize your observation.

Religion does harm to people and it did harm to many of us. Our reactions are not entirely rational.

Be patient.

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Permalink Reply by Bob MacVay on July 16, 2012 at 6:56pm

I think there is a connection in most cases in the western world. As an atheist I am supported by the overwhelming evidence for a godless universe but I feel all religions are absurd.Since I was born and raised in the western world, the religion I am familiar with is christianity and it seems only natural to be critical of the christian bullshit that contradicts rational and free thought.I personally do feel that the christian bible's invalidy supports ahteism. I agree by definition, atheism is just a non belief in a diety and the supernatural and everyone is entitled to their own personal beliefs. However, I feel that those christians who wish to venture into the public forum and attempt to force their beliefs on others are fair game for debate. I too believe the earth is round because of the overwhelming evidence supporting it but find it hard to resist speaking up when someone says it isn't because "god says so".

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Permalink Reply by Tom Sarbeck on August 5, 2012 at 6:30pm

Tom M., the term "deep atheism" is new to me. How closely does it resemble your atheism?

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Permalink Reply by Milly on July 16, 2012 at 2:28pm

It's rather ridiculous what some people think about atheism. A classmate of mine asked if I believed in reincarnation if I didn't believe in heaven and hell. I had to explain to him that I don't believe in souls, therefore I believe in neither reincarnation or heaven and hell. Then he said "Oh, have fun lol".

face-palm.

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Permalink Reply by Tom Sarbeck on July 16, 2012 at 6:17pm

Milly, I hope you were able (and are able) to reply, "I am having fun."

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Permalink Reply by Zuha on July 28, 2012 at 1:47pm

I think this or the next generation might clear things up. I mean, I think most of the atheists currently alive are from this generation (please correct me I am wrong), so I'd say that they might educate their children. Even if the children decided they wanted to believe in a god, they would still retain the knowledge their atheist parent(s) gave them. 

I honestly hope I'll have the courage to tell my own parents about my lack of religion soon so I can finally tell them that their assumptions about non-religious people (atheists) is wrong and prejudiced-- but hey, I'm twelve. I have plenty of time left.

... Right?

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