Alright, so a couple of days ago I was talking to a friend of mine in class. And we began to talk about religion. Now I'm far from the kind of person that likes to showcase my views on things, But I told him I was an Atheist. He Actually didn't believe me at first, and said that people have to take a oath to become an atheist. We literally argued about this for 5 whole minutes before I finally said lets go to an computer and get google the definition. after I showed him what atheism actually is, He still retained doubt. I just said forget it, and ended the conversation on it there. 


What I'm asking is how long will people remain that ignorant on atheism. It's not like he's dumb when it comes to other topics. He says He's a christian and he never even read the bible. And when I told him and another friend I read it They Laughed. Oh yeah and I forgot to mention one of the guys laughing has a tattoo that says "blessed" on his chest. And he never read the bible. That's just stupid to me, But I kinda want to know what other people think about this.

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I've read none of Asimov's work. Did he say what "properly read" or "improperly read" mean?

I ask that because the cruelties of WW2 and many events since then demonstrate that we humans are capable of the cruelties the OT describes.

Perhaps Asimov was saying that instead of reasoning his way from belief to disbelief, as many of us do, the OT shocked him to disbelief.

Tom, You are right.  I served in WW2, as a deck ape in the Pacific. I had two older brothers & two brothers in law.   They're all long gone, but they too would agree with you.  War is fucking INSANE.

Thanks, William. In the Korean War I was a snipe aboard DD748, which in 1945 was at Okinawa shooting down Japanese suicide pilots.

War is insane for most; it's profitable for a few.

To folks who want to do away with nuclear weapons, I point out that for the first time in human history, the few who profit from war will also be destroyed.

As long as people are being indoctrinated into their religions, there will be ignorance of other beliefs. I believe that as long as people are being raised blindly in any faith, they will have little understanding of any other faith. They may even have little understanding of their own faith. As you mentioned, your "Christian" friends have never read the bible, but that's the book they are meant to live their lives by. Not only are they ignorant about atheism, but they're ignorant about their own faith as well. They've been raised in Christianity in a nation where Christianity is the norm, and is the most socially acceptable form of faith. They have little need to read the bible and truly understand their faith when all around them are people interpreting it for them and leading them by the hand. I believe that as long as any faith continues to be the norm, there will be ignorance about atheism. 

I had this happen just last month in training for my new job. "My views" had come to topic, I stated "but, I don't let it get to me cuz I'm an atheist." My new friend playfully slapped my shoulder and laughed it off saying "oh whatever Natalie no you're not" I look dead serious and insulted back and her. "uh yeah, I am." she look surprised and since then I've become the center of curiosity for my co workers. Questions like "So what do you do on Christmas?" or "Why do you go to church?" pop up all the time. (My uncle runs is a pastor and he knows I'm not religious but I still go every now and then for his benefit). Just because I'm not religious doesn't mean I have to be disrespectful.

Petty much the world feels you HAVE to have a religion. You HAVE to believe in god even if you don't understand or care. Atheism is still the new kid on the block of the modern world. It's for the modern person with a modern mindset. But our modern world is crowded with old world views. And the new kid usually gets picked on. Even Christianity went through that.

Natalie, two men made very clear their belief that I should have a religion.

I first came out publicly at a Toastmasters meeting. During a break for coffee, one man who wears an always-cheerful mask came to me, chuckled, and with his usual confidence told me I would come back. His manner told me that talking with him would be useless, so I didn't try.

Another man, seeming frightened, warned me that after I die I will be on my knees to Jesus. Too surprised too reply, I said nothing and began ignoring him when we passed by. Weeks later I saw his wife without him and asked her if he believed what he'd said. She told me he became that way after a stroke. Knowing a stroke can wreck part of a brain, I started nodding when we passed each other. I don't try to engage him in conversation.

A few sincere-seeming people express puzzlement. I reply that if I hadn't gone to Catholic schools I might still believe a god exists. Most of them respond calmly and we talk of other things. One man responded as if he expects evil of Catholicism. So do I.

Most people, especially those many years younger than my eighty, take the news calmly; a few even chuckle. Atheism has a future

science leads to a supreme being:

Einstein observed that "the man who is thoroughly convinced of the universal
operation of the law of causation cannot for a moment entertain the idea of
a being who interferes in the course of events. . . . He has no use for the religion
of fear."

'nuf said?

back to the main topic..a simple answer is probably never but if we dare to be optimistic, perhaps in couple more centuries..I dunno

I come from Egypt-not exactly a great place to be for free thinkers-especially nowadays if you're folllowing the news..anyways, my journey to atheism was a long one, perhaps 6 years ago..I was born a 'muslim'(reluctantly), always had my doubts since my teens I guess.. I studied the quran,old and new testaments,Confucious..books, lots of books, science etc but mainly was focused on the 'abrahamic' religions, their roots and the cosmic Saddam Hussein. In a country like mine it's never easy to be a free critical thinker and a decision to finally be honest with oneself and reject all those mythical bullshit is not to be taken lightly-especially tat I know i'll probably keep it to myself. I became an atheist(or how i was born) about 2 months ago. It's a very hard decision, especially psychologically..I believe people -well, most people need some form or religion and belief system, replacing a religion wih a somewhat questionmark is not for everybody and especially hard without a support system. I needed to talk to someone- not to convince them- just to share my new 'findings'. Today, I confined to my best friend.. known him for most of my life.. he's open minded i guessed, not exactly 'religious'.. we sometimes go out for the occasional beer and discuss religion, so I though he will be understanding, he wasn't and he wasn't very nice..raised his voice, started accusing me f disrespect of his beliefs etc went home and later he called me, thought he'd be apologetic and realise what a jerk he was, first he was trying to be nice- persuading and then he realised I was a 'lost cause; he uttered something about burning in hell and hang up.

Think I lost my's not my fault but I'm getting depressed..

Put yourself where you will find people who think more like you do. You will enjoy their company and be happier with them than you were.

About Einstein, his brilliance in science did not lead to brilliance in religion. Unable to give up his belief in a supreme being, he refused to accept a universe without purpose.

Well in my country (Denmark). We are reasonably understood by Catholics and Protestants. They have realized that not all, that a part of the population do not believe in a god, and seems to understand the term, but they don not understander why one is atheist.

But there are all so a lot of Muslims heir and in my experience.I had a couple of muslim friends, but then they found out that I was atheist and well now we ain't friends any longer, they simply dump me do to my point of view and from what I have learn that it was because they thought I was WICCA believer :D

I think a lot of the understanding is depending on which part of the world you are living in. In general I think in Scandinavia there is a pretty good understanding of atheists, perhaps because our lives ain't so tightly knot with the church  

Lars, please tell me your view on the following.

I've read a lot of European history and concluded that that the centuries of religious war there led to a separation of church and state that's more complete than the separation we here in the USofA have.

Is that my delusion, or is there something to it?

I tell people that some religious war here will help Americans separate the two.

BTW, before I retired from the computer business, what we called "Danish modern" furniture was real popular here. My unit manager for a while went to Denmark several times each each year to order Danish furniture for his wife's store. I haven't kept up and don't know if it's still popular.

Well in Denmark we actually are some of the newest Christians in Europe, I believe Norway is the newest and unlike rest of Europe, Scandinavia has not have the same amount of battles between Catholics and Protestants. So I can not answer super correctly for other parts than Scandinavia. But with that said I do think your "assumptions" is correct, but is mostly accurated if you look on Northern europe excluding Scandinavia, because countries like The Netherlands, Germany and Belgium seems to be truly split.

But in southern europe there are still some deep rooted connections between the Church and government, you can especially see it on politics concerning for instance Gays and abortion. This is based on thing I have bee told by some of mates from Spain and Italy.

But I you mean truly separation. like no connection at all, there is no Country in europe (I believe) there have a complet separation. For instance heir in Denmark we until 2011 had a ministry of Church and a Secretary of Church and from 2011 to pressent we have a ministry of Religion and a Secretary if Religion and most other european countries has something similar. But the church has no influence on political decision.

To your BTW question. Well yes, we have some pretty known and well seen Designers which are popular all around the world like Arne Jakobsen whom designed Furniture, B&O designers and manufactures of HIFI equipments (TV, sterros, Speaks etc)  and Of course LEGO but I don't think you see that as furniture :D 

LEGO isn't furniture?  Damn!  I need to trash my living room set then.

(Just kidding, in fact it's a normal sofa/loveseat/recliner combo.)

My recollection from being a tourist in Denmark about 20 years ago was that the monarch was required to be a Lutheran, also.


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