Personally, I'm in favor of marriage. The public declaration of fealty steers the focus of any marital problems onto resolution rather than dissolution. However, I don't think the question should be, "Should gay couples be allowed to marry?". It should be, "Why is the government involved, AT ALL, in how people wish to structure their households?".

We should be relying on government for assistance in enforcing contracts. But how these contracts are structured should be entirely up to the people involved. This, of course, includes people who wish to structure their households around participation by more than two individuals.

I guess there needs to be a set of default contracts (to protect children and establish ownership of chattels, etc.) which are deemed to be in effect when people share a household; but, other than that, the government should have no role. 

I know that polygamy facilitates some injustices that never occur in "traditional" marriages <joke>, but is polygamy sufficiently evil by its nature to require the government to ban it?

Tags: marriage, polygamy

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I agree with Joreth. For example, polygamy is illegal in the United States and there are 5 homicides per 100,000 people. In comparison here are the homicide rates per 100,000 people in some countries where polygamy is recognized under civil law:

 

Afghanistan: 3.4

Algeria: 0.64

Bahrain: 0.80

Bangladesh: 2.6

Egypt: 0.80

United Arab Emirates: 0.92

Kuwait: 1.4

Qatar: 1.4

 

That is just a sampling. Based on the above the argument that in societies where polygamy is recognized that there are more violent crimes just doesn't hold water.

 

 

lol you think those countries actually report accurate statistics?

Tow bones to pick;

What's considered a violent crime?  Sure homicide, but what about rape?  I'm thinking that rape isn't reported by the list above very often.  By that I mean that it's not a crime that's taken seriously, for the most part.  What about domestic violence?  Again, I bet it's not widely reported off that list.

 

Secondly, there are plenty of things that would effect the homicide rate in greater proportion than polygamy does.  Such as, police presence, population density, population diversity and ethnic tension.   I don't think that one can accurately draw the conclusion you do, or at least infer it's based on polygamy.  The correlation is easy, the causation is the hard part.

And rape is not rape in the things we civilized people consider rape such as forcing your spouse to have sex against your will. There is no such thing as rape in these circumstances as women have no right to refuse the sexual "needs" of their husbands.
I do believe that's his point - that you can't infer that polygamy causes more violent crime, because the evidence does not point in that way, both by the statistics he pointed out, and for the other variables you just mentioned.

These countries are Islamic and men can legally beat and rape their wives without legal repercussions. Here is a more accurate picture of polygamy:

In some Muslim countries, such as Saudi Arabia,[25] reports indicate that domestic violence is quite widespread. One recent study, in Syria, found that 25% of the married women surveyed said that they had been beaten by their husbands.[26]

If 25% of married women are beaten by their husbands, could it possibly be related to that wife beaters get more than the one target allowed in the rest of the world, or would that correlation be spurious also?

 

I never saw much wrong with polygamy. I don't see how it causes suffering, so I don't see why I should be against it.

Personally, I think monogamy is a relatively recent social construct (in the span of human existence) that probably works well with shorter life spans.  But as our longevity increases, it begs the question whether monogamy is "natural" or "normal."

I think the stats on affairs and divorce suggest that monogamy, as much as people want to believe in it, may not be truly reflective of human nature/biology.  I guess it may be just like a belief in god- it's an idea, but it doesn't seem to reflect reality.

 

That's a question that's pretty valid. I know quite a few people who lasted about twenty years or so before things blew up, including my parents. Just long enough to raise some kids and kick them out. 

 

 

Divorce when children are involved is the ultimate act of selfishness. If you have chosen by own volition to procreate, your need for personal happiness are no longer a valid argument.

The issue isn't monogamy, it's part of a large problem which is the failure of some overemotional and irrational monogamists to behave like adults. Though biology has substantial impact on behavior and certainly promote certain anti-social behavior, most cheating and divorcing is caused personal choices alone

If humans were not to be monogamous on average, it would be odd of nature to give us an almost perfect 50/50% gender balance. Polygamist behavior is usually only socially condoned in societies with a dearth of men, often caused by the male invention of large scale warfare.

A male polygamists tend to get as many wives as possible where they can, a female polygamists probably prefer sexual prostitution or adding "sugar daddys".

"Divorce when children are involved is the ultimate act of selfishness. If you have chosen by own volition to procreate, your need for personal happiness are no longer a valid argument"

this may be one of the worst things i have ever read about divorce! can you explain why divorce is selfish? or do you agree with the catholic church that women need to shut up and stay with a man who is abusive even if it means her ultimate death? are you married? are you telling me there are NO reasons why two people should not divorce? i suggest to you that your view of marriage is quite narrow and based on hate, not reason. I left my ex after 20 years of mental and physical abuse and her cheating on me. we have kids who are now in a much better place than if i had stayed there a continued in the marriage. I was at the point of suicide and had to get out. was that a healthy place to raise our kids? not at all, to stay would have seen my kids destroyed by the toxicity of the situation and i was not going to let that happen!

Until you have actually been in a situation where you can understand that marriage is just a contract and contracts do not mean 'til death do us part' as there are cultures and places in the world where that very thing happens! is that the only way out? many you would fit right in with the fundies on this one!!

 

please, do more research on a topic before making such a stupid statement!

 

Why is our government involved with marriage?

 

When our government started to handle marriages it took that right away from the church and gave it to the people. I'd much rather grindingly change government law then be denied outright by a church. The "Why is our government involved with marriage" argument has been used by the Christian Right to put it back in the church.

 

I don't think polygamy would work in our society. Relationships break down more and once you have more then one person in a group a certain dynamic kicks in where one person would be the most dominate one person and another would be a sub to two. If someone can handle that I'd say go for it make it legal but most the US population wouldn't be able to understand the dynamic enough.

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