This is meant to be a hysterical thread for any jokes you want to make about this topic but also to serve as a serious place for me to understand further how Atheists think...

I considered myself an Atheist for quite a while but it just never felt right. I wasn't really being "me," but I was trying to please someone I'm being me. I DO think there is a TON of evidence and proof that God does in fact exist.

But this thread is not about me. It's about you. I want to know what would it take for you to say, "YES that's it!" What "evidence" or "proof" are you looking for? What EXACTLY would you need to see to be able to say, "Wow yes, there is a God..."....A scientific journal article? A scientific experiment? Richard Dawkins saying it? lol...What? What could possibly persuade you to suddenly believe that there is a God.

And because I know it's probably going to happen there are some rules for participation

Rule #1. No spinning this back on me. I'm asking YOU what YOU think. If you want to ask me what i think start a different thread for that.

Rule #2. No ducking the question. Saying, "the "onus" is on you to prove." No. That's not going to fly here. We're not discussing the "on us" argument. We're discussing what would it take for you to be convinced. A lightning bolt up your ass on a sunny day? A surfer Jesus knock on your door? lol...OK I'm being sarcastic. But seriously WHAT?

Have at it!

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But if a loving god wanted to prove its existence to me, I guess we could end world hunger and go from there. Maybe stop kids from getting molested? You say you think there's plenty of evidence? Not trying to knock you, but if there is any evidence, the evidence is that god is a tyrannical douchebag.

On an expedition in the Amazon Zoologists came across a srpinking of berries on ground level and noted one that seemed like a near perfect circle of mostly red berries, a few yellow ones and some green leaves. There were so many berries and colourful small objects one could simply scoop them up and make whatever design they fancied. It was like a beautiful wreath had been made and they became concerned as they realised there may be indigenous people in the forest and they may have encroached on a secret spot or of some sort of art with the small chance that things could become hostile. No people showed up. As they properly studied the birds in that part of the forrest it became apparent that those objects on the ground were dropped by birds making their nests up high in the tree with many falling off or washed away by rain. The pieces of red fruit were most common and they noted that there were many clumps of red berries around the forest especially near tall trees. The berries and other objects fell in a near random way. With so many birds collecting colourful objects that often fell out of the nest, it is only a matter of time until there's a large clump that seems like a design. It wasn't a design. It was random chance. As they learnt more about this part of the forest and the habits of the birds, it seemed clear they mistook a random inevitability for a creation. The same thing happened with numerous zoological expeditions all around the world where they came across an object or structure that seemed designed but was the biproduct of a totally unrelated phenomena or animal behaviour.

When neanderthals broke out into new unfamiliar territory they found it difficult to adapt to the environment and to shield themselves from nature. When they were desperate they performed strange ceremonies to some nature spirit and fortunately came across a cave. They had never seen one before. It was perfect for what they needed. Hidden, large enough to habitat in, smoke from the fire would seep out and there was a small pool of water. Clearly the nature spirit had led them to a special place that was designed for living in. It later became evident that caves form in many different ways from a variety of different processes which are virtually random. As we came to understand weather, geology, mineralogy, chemistry and the water cycle it became obvious that the cave formed out of natural systems and not by design.

Once you develop a more sophisticated understanding of evolution, naturalism and basic physics/chemistry/biology, you'll come to realize that the traits living beings have came from natural processes and weren't designed...similar to the appearance of caves and berry wreaths in the Amazon. In the grand scheme of things there is simply nothing remarkable about the emergence of life and intelligence except it seems to be rare (only one known object in our solar system shows clear signs of life) and intelligence except that we are very lucky it happened on Earth.

You can dress up the creator of the universe in amazing clothes but it doesn't make his case any more remarkable than the emergence of reason and logic.

As for neanderthals, open up any book on the subject or visit a nature museum with bone fragments and artifacts left by them. There is no doubt they existed. Try reading the following:

Neanderthal Man by Paabo, The Humans that went extinct by C. Finlays. The Ice Age...a very short introduction (the same of a series as evolution). Also Human Evolution...a very short introduction. All of these books cite irrefutable evidence, investigation and research on the existence of Neanderthals. In any doesn't even matter for the purposes of my argument. Replace it with groups of Africans leaving the comfort of Africa and moving into Northern Regions they have to addapt to. They will find all sorts of natural phenomena that haven't seen before as a creation of a supernatural being or spirit or force. It's the same story be it neanderthals or migrating humans..

As for the 3rd paragrah...please pick up one of the books I've mentioned. While I've written numerous lengthy replys here today, I'm not going to type out an enormous stream of pages and pages of text when this can be easily avoided by you doing your own homework and reading the text by a good author who can explain it well.

Sorry Gregg, but once again we do not give free Science lessons to Christians unless it is a specific post on a specific subject. As I mentioned elsewhere you are free to open a new post on Evolution or Big Bang Cosmology. I (or another site mod) will approve it for you. We will address your questions there as it will help to educate other people if they can see a post with a specific title.

Here is a starter video for you on Evolution.

Hi Gregg. Who are the credible eye witnesses? How did they record their observations. (Please don't respond with chunk quotes of the bible as that's against TA rules). I was under the impression that testimonials to this alleged event were not written by people who were alive at that time, but I may have missed something relevant.
The gospel of Matthew was not written by one of the disciples of Jesus. Seriously mate, look a few basic things up before you post this sort of naivety. Even a quick peek at Wikipedia wouldn't hurt.

From wiki:- "Most scholars believe the Gospel of Matthew was composed between AD 80 and 90, with a range of possibility between AD 70 to 110 (a pre-70 date remains a minority view).[2][3] The anonymous author was probably a male Jew, standing on the margin between traditional and non-traditional Jewish values, and familiar with technical legal aspects of scripture being debated in his time.[4] Writing in a polished Semitic "synagogue Greek",[5] he drew on three main sources: the Gospel of Mark, the hypothetical collection of sayings known as the Q source, and material unique to his own community, called the M source or "Special Matthew".[6]"

Why don't you look up the others you mentioned above before making such simplistic erroneous assertions.

Gregg...its time to leave the kindergarten table and play with the adults. Not a single page of the new Testament was written within 50 years of Jesus deathdeath and those were epistles. You are wrong. If you still claim the gospels were written down by Matthew...then show us your source. Saying "that's not true" doesn't cut it at the adult table. The overwhelming majority of Bible scholars based on all the available evidenceevidence, sources, artifacts and ancient history almost unanimously conclude no...and their argument and explanation is sound. Most of them are Christian. If you have some special access to someone who has reviewed all of the sources, artifacts and history of the region and concluded otherwise...whats his/her name and what is the name of the article or book this was published in.

Name of author and name of book Gregg.

Davis thank you - I'm not good at playing, "oh no he didn't ! Oh yes he did!" games.

Some theists who come here are interested and educated in debating their subject matter - despite the random explanations why they would join an atheist forum at all. Some, less so.

Gregg you found our site by web search (according to your info). I presume you searched for something connected to atheism. What was your motivation?
I asked you why you sought out atheists in particular. Is it a secret?

Gregg, I don't quite understand this. The things you've listed are examples of things we don't currently know how to explain (although some of them we do have some inklings and are working on it). When we don't know how to explain something or why something is the way it is there are two options:

1) Admit we don't know and try finding out.

2) Use this as a reason to think that God exists.

Surely option 2 is the one that requires faith. How does admitting we don't know how something happens and trying to find out equate to faith? What belief do we have?

Greg your ignorance on atheism is astonishing. The atheist world view consists of nothing more than: "a lack of belief in God". Or do you think that hundred of millions of Chinese atheists all have the big-bang,  something from nothing,  strong evolutionist world view. Atheists can believe in,  and many atheists do...believe in silly stupid things like ghosts or universal consciousness or karma. Some atheists don't believe in God but still in a fantastical creation and supernatural phenomena.

And even if you did define atheists correctly (did you? ) you've totally misrepresented one subgroup of atheists (empirical rationalists). The crux of lacking a disbelief in God is a complete lack of a definition,  a lack of evidence and no meaningful reason to take his existence seriously. Our lack on belief in God can rest on the fact that you've failed to make your case (and even then multiple atheists lack belief in God for entirely different reasons including the irrational and absurd).

You've also committed another fallacy here. Youve claimed that like minded atheists use anything to prove God doesn't exist. None of us have done anything of the kind. No argument could prove the nonexistence of something. Just because the very idea of leprechauns is ridiculous and even though there is no meaningful evidence of their existence....doesnt prove they don't exist. That's fallacious. don't actually commit a fallacy but instead put a fallacy in our mouths.

Atheists don't need to disprove God...those who claim there is a God have to prove it. We are here minding our own business...theists enter and tell us there is a God. The response is: Okay...make your case with meaningful rational falsifiable evidence...otherwise go away. We don't have to disprove your ridiculous absurd supernatural claims.


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